Rogues v. Traps

[Belbarrus]

If they liked, but after the first round, it is pretty obvious where the trap is, because it has just gone off!

I dont quite understand the reasoning here.

Let's say a door has a trap on it so that if someone tries to unlock it without the proper key, a poison needle pokes out. You are saying that if someone fails to find this trap, it just goes off anyway, whether someone opens the door or not?

Or, a chest has a trap that if the proper key is not used to unlock the chest, a mechanism inside the chest is activated when the chest is opened that belches out a cloud of toxic gas. You are saying that if someone fails to find this trap, it just goes off anyway, whether someone opens the chest or not?

Or a trip wire across a hallway, between two statues that, when triggered, causes a gout of flame to issue from the mouths of the statues. You are saying that if someone fails to find this trap, it just goes off anyway, whether someone triggers the trip wire or not?

B

 

[Darklone]

It may be a houserule, yes, but I don't think so. I simply followed the elaboration of someone official (wasn't it the Sage?) when 3.0 came out and he explained that taking 20 is always like having a 1 as result in the first 6 seconds, then a 2, a 3, and so on.

So if a 1 is bad, you're not allowed to take it.

I do allow though to check thoroughly and more careful (taking more time) with a +2 bonus.

 

[CCamfield]

It may be a houserule, yes, but I don't think so. I simply followed the elaboration of someone official (wasn't it the Sage?) when 3.0 came out and he explained that taking 20 is always like having a 1 as result in the first 6 seconds, then a 2, a 3, and so on.

So if a 1 is bad, you're not allowed to take it.

It is a house interpretation, then.

There is nothing bad about rolling a 1 on a search check; it just means that you don't notice anything, and if there is a trap there, and you trigger it (a separate action, opening the door or hitting the tripwire or whatever), it will go off.

But that is different from Climb, where if you roll poorly enough on the roll, you immediately fall.

 

[Darklone]

Perhaps a houserule then. Who cares. Taking 20 with search checks is simply NOT FUN.

So by hongs 15th (? or 13th?) law, I will not allow that.

May the dice roll...

 

[Otterscrubber]

Perhaps a houserule then. Who cares. Taking 20 with search checks is simply NOT FUN.

So by hongs 15th (? or 13th?) law, I will not allow that.

May the dice roll...

It may not be fun, but sneaking is slow business. A good thief is methodical and patient. Hasty thieves are dead thieves. This alone kinda makes it cool and gives the rogue center stage while people must wait for him to do his job properly. If you are DM and you want to make have more of an adrenaline rush then add some type of time limitation, like wandering guards that must be avoided or something else more clever than that.

 

[DarkMaster]

Perhaps a houserule then. Who cares. Taking 20 with search checks is simply NOT FUN.

So by hongs 15th (? or 13th?) law, I will not allow that.

May the dice roll...

NOT FUN tell me where the fun is when you have to roll the dice 20 times everytime you are searching. Not allowing reroll make low level thief pretty useless.

The DC for finding trap is usually at low level around 21-24. If you rule that search failure means activating the trap then your low level will never try to detect trap because it is way too dangerous, I wonder who wants to play rogue in your group.

In my campaing when the rogue was first level he found a couple of trap on doors and others simply by saying I take 20 on it, spending 2 minutes studying the doors. To increase the tension during one of her search a threw a random encounter. It saved the party many times and give and made the rogue feel like she was useful to the group.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I treat taking 20 on search rolls similar to the way that taking 20 on craft checks is done. Failure on a craft check does not cause danger but does ruin the material you are working on. I see searching for traps as more than just visually inspecting an area. Otherwise, a thief attempting to discover a pressure plate hidden under a chest would have no chance of finding the trap! He must lift the chest a slight amount to find the trap. Since a 1 is an automatic failure for any skill check, this means the thief would have lifted the chest too high and whammo, hot trap death! Besides, it is rather ridiculous to think that a thief's eyesight is good enough to detect everything in a area without actually STEPPING into the area. I do not penalize my thieves for failing a search check unless they roll a 1. There is risk in looking for traps, and that risk is setting them off. To think that just because you are only looking for them makes it impossible to set them off doesn't make sense.

 

[Ovinomancer]

As far as rerolls on search, I don't allow them unless new information is available or the situation has changed. This does seem to penalize the low level thief, but being able to reroll until you find something kinda negates the danger of traps. If you have the time, make sure! To offset this, I allow a small ciscumstance bonus if the thief takes his time and isn't under undue pressure. This is by the rules, and means even low level thieves have a good expectation of being able to do thier jobs.

 

[Darklone]

Btw: I don't use a thousand rerolls if a thief is searching a whole area. I just ask him which way he moves and if he comes into the area of a trap, I'll roll for him. So no prob

 

[Belbarrus]

Besides, it is rather ridiculous to think that a thief's eyesight is good enough to detect everything in a area without actually STEPPING into the area.

Right, but it also doesnt mean that a Rogue is the doing the *exact* action that would trigger the trap.

If you have seen the Raider's of the Lost Ark movie, check out what Indiana Jones is doing in the opening scene. He scans the floor visually, then moves some moss/mud aside to reveal a pressure plate, which he purposely activates by pushing down on it with the stick. The same thing with the "light" trap and even with the pedestal. The character is able to determine a trap exists, not just by "looking" *without* setting off the trap, because they are looking for signs that a trap exists otherwise. If Indiana Jones did *not* find the floor pressure plate, it would not have gone off until he did an action to set it off, but the act of searching alone does not set off the trap.

The book Traps & Treachery goes into some details. For example, a Rogue may notice some scarring from an acid trap without having to get near the trigger mechanism.

A Rogue does not need to step on a pit trap to notice the seam of the lid. Just like the way jungle guides know how to get around natural hazards like poisonous plants, quicksand, and so, *without* having to actually step IN the hazard.

B