Role Features... Controller left out?

[Intense_Interest]

That is your opinion but as far as what 4e means by controller, you are wrong.

"Wall" powers and/or Blockers are essential Controller features, as are funneling "OA" powers (Zone damage). Mass-damage is only one part of battle-field control- forming when and where the enemies come is another part.

Cleric 5 daily Spiritual Weapon (combat advantage, Striker esque style)
Cleric 9 daily Astral Defenders (single-space "wall", OA damage)
Cleric 9 daily Blade Barrier (Wall, Diff. Terrain, "OA" Damage)
Cleric 10 daily Knights of Unyielding Valor (Blocker)
Cleric 15 daily Seal of Warding (Diff. Terrain)
Cleric 19 daily Fire Storm (OA Damage)
Cleric 19 daily Knight of Glory (OA damage)
Cleric 25 daily Seal of Protection (Super Diff Terrain)
Cleric 29 daily Astral Storm (OA Damage)

Wizard 5 daily Web (Diff Terrain, Immobilized)
Wizard 6 daily Dispel Magic (anti-Zone/Conjuration)
Wizard 6 daily Wall of Fog (blocks Line of Sight, concealment)
Wizard 9 daily Ice Storm (diff terrain)
Wizard 9 daily Wall of Fire (OA damage, diff terrain)
Wizard 10 daily Arcane Gate (super-movement)
Wizard 11 encounter Storm Cage (OA damage)
Wizard 12 daily Sudden Storm (diff terrain)
Wizard 15 daily Wall of Ice (Blocker, OA damage)
Wizard 19 daily Cloudkill (OA damage)
Wizard 19 daily Evard's Black Tentacles (diff terrain)
Wizard 25 daily Necrotic Web (diff terrain, OA)
Wizard 29 daily Greater Ice Storm (diff terrain)

Further, if druids or the what-have-you "primal" controller doesn't have a Wall of Wood power and/or Entangling Vines power, I'll freak out.

 

[Minigiant]

I submit for your consideration Fire Storm. Top damage AOE, same range as the longest range wizard AOEs, plus it leaves a damaging zone that can be sustained, AND it only affects enemies. And it's a level 19 cleric daily.

The other classes will beat it sometimes, But they don't have enough good control to be a full time controller that's as good as a wizard.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

I submit for your consideration Fire Storm. Top damage AOE, same range as the longest range wizard AOEs, plus it leaves a damaging zone that can be sustained, AND it only affects enemies. And it's a level 19 cleric daily.

Yup, a very controller like power, in fact its almost identical to Cloudkill. But look at the other 19th level powers of the classes. The rest are either single target and/or buff based for the cleric, and AOE damage based for the Wizard. Fire Storm is an exception, not a cleric defining power.

 

[Plane Sailing]

How do you control the battlefield?

By attacking large areas. And that's really the realm of powers.

What kind of class features could do that? Most likely broken ones. The wizard class features are useful and plentyful, that's all you need for balance.

You are still missing the point of the original question though.

Can I phrase it like this:

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered defender, you would give him some kind of 'marking' class feature (like fighters and paladins have)

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered striker, you would give him some kind of 'additional damage' class feature (like rangers, rogues and warlocks have).

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered leader, you would give him some kind of 'minor healing word' class feature (like warlords and clerics have).

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered controller... there isn't any example to follow for an appropriate 'class feature'. This seems to be a strange omission, probably cropping up because they only included 1 controller and didn't get around to asking the question - but the question should probably be usefully asked at some point.

Cheers

 

[ForbidenMaster]

You are still missing the point of the original question though.

Can I phrase it like this:

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered defender, you would give him some kind of 'marking' class feature (like fighters and paladins have)

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered striker, you would give him some kind of 'additional damage' class feature (like rangers, rogues and warlocks have).

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered leader, you would give him some kind of 'minor healing word' class feature (like warlords and clerics have).

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered controller... there isn't any example to follow for an appropriate 'class feature'. This seems to be a strange omission, probably cropping up because they only included 1 controller and didn't get around to asking the question - but the question should probably be usefully asked at some point.

Cheers

But he did answer the question. The answer is that there are no class features, its all in the powers.

 

[Plane Sailing]

But he did answer the question. The answer is that there are no class features, its all in the powers.

Not a sufficient answer - because all the defenders, all the leaders, all the strikers could have been written that way "it's all in the powers", but weren't. They all have a class feature that ties in to the distinguishing characteristic of their role, but the wizard doesn't. There appears to be no 'controller' distinguishing class feature.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Not a sufficient answer - because all the defenders, all the leaders, all the strikers could have been written that way "it's all in the powers", but weren't. They all have a class feature that ties in to the distinguishing characteristic of their role, but the wizard doesn't. There appears to be no 'controller' distinguishing class feature.

Yep. That seems true.

But is it bad? Or indifferent? Do we look at it the wrong way? The Rogue has a special striker-like feature, but it looks not like the special striker-like feature of the Ranger and the Warlock.
Warlock and Warlord have similar abilities (their healing word powers).
Fighter and Paladin both can mark, but the way they use their marks is very different. (And other classes can mark, too, assuming they take the right power)

Maybe the Controller just doesn't nead a special ability to "control"?

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Not a sufficient answer - because all the defenders, all the leaders, all the strikers could have been written that way "it's all in the powers", but weren't. They all have a class feature that ties in to the distinguishing characteristic of their role, but the wizard doesn't. There appears to be no 'controller' distinguishing class feature.

Exactly, now why is that an issue?

 

[Psikus]

No... apparently the only role you can just 'steal' is controller. Not like you can just gain warlock curse for your wizard or, better yet, inspiring word 2/encounter, tactical presence, and combat leader.

Actually, the leader role can also be stolen, to some degree. Consider the following power:

Bastion of Health Cleric Utility 6
Encounter
Minor Action Ranged 10
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge. Add your Charisma modifier to the hit points regained.

That is pretty close to healing word 1/encounter, even if you miss the extra d6. If you prefer multiclassing as a warlord, powers like Inspiring Reaction (utility 6) or Aid the Injured (utility 2) are reasonable inspiring word proxies.

 

[Leatherhead]

You are still missing the point of the original question though.

Can I phrase it like this:

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered defender, you would give him some kind of 'marking' class feature (like fighters and paladins have)

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered striker, you would give him some kind of 'additional damage' class feature (like rangers, rogues and warlocks have).

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered leader, you would give him some kind of 'minor healing word' class feature (like warlords and clerics have).

If you wanted to create a shadow-powered controller... there isn't any example to follow for an appropriate 'class feature'. This seems to be a strange omission, probably cropping up because they only included 1 controller and didn't get around to asking the question - but the question should probably be usefully asked at some point.

Cheers

I think it should be some variant of the Arcane Implement Mastery feature. The ability to make your powers hit more often or last longer seems ideal and nearly essential for the controller roll.