Role Features... Controller left out?

[AntiPaladin]

I think that the wizard ability to choose which spells he wishes to prepare each day qualifies as "controller" flavored.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

All other classes have area attacks, many of which are superior in range, damage, or usability to Wizard spells. Every single cleric AoE spell, for example, hits only enemies, so they can freely blast away without fear of harming their friends.
...
They (wizards) don't have the best AoE spells by any means. And they don't have the best zones or debuffs either (with the exception of Sleep, probably the best "controller" spell they have, and ironically it's at level 1).

It's hard to seriously discuss the issue if you go so far left-field.

I guess all I can say is that I think you are wrong.

Take a cleric, which you IDed as having better Area of effect powers. What kind of Area effect does he have? Only the Wisdom build can make a claim at being a controller. So let's see Lvl 1-10 :

There is Divine glow, encounter 1, targets only enemies but that's a close blast which means the cleric has to be pretty much in melee. Decent, less powerful than Force orb which has range, covers as many square and also discriminate its enemies.

There is Beacon of hope, daily 1, but it's a close burst that does no damage and therefore won't kill minion. Oh, it's a great power, but that's because of the combined healing effect to the weakened condition. It's not much of a crowd control effect.

Daily 5 has Consecrated ground. That's a close burst 1, a sustainable radiant field. Very cool, strong for defense, but not controller stuff. And it has to compete with Spiritual Weapon . If you have a rogue in the team, Spiritual Weapon will always win (It gives combat advantage! Weee!).

At level 9, the wisdom cleric could takle the Flame strike power, range 10 burst 2 (25 squares), 5 ongoing damage. Indeed a true wizardesque power which main advantage is targeting only enemies.. Of course, at the same level a wizard could be using Ice Storm. Range 20, burst 3 (49 square), same damage, immbolizes targets, slow those that were missed. Plus the area becomes difficult terrain for the rest of the encounter (Difficult terrain + Slow ? Any melee monsters wastes at least a full round just trying to get out of there!). It doesn't discriminarte between friends and foes, yet for crowd control, need we elaborate on which power is better?

The melee cleric could pick divine power. Decent even though it's a close burst 2 because he will be built for melee so it's okay.

And that's it for the first 10 level!

Only a single ranged area power, and one that is crushed at comparable level by the wizard's power for the purpose of crowd control! You want to infringe on the Wizard's role with that? It's a joke. It's not even close. We can't argue seriously if you pretend otherwise.

 

[keterys]

I think that the wizard ability to choose which spells he wishes to prepare each day qualifies as "controller" flavored.

Is the ability to retrain controller? How about the ability to choose which weapon to use? For a cleric to use rituals?

It has nothing to do with control, as very cool as it is.

 

[keterys]

And that's it for the first 10 level!

It's already been covered that the clerics area attacks are sparse until 9th, at which point he gets them at every available level up point, and that at high level many of his options are just as good as a wizard's.

It's also been covered that clerics have an extremely short list of currently available options, as half are for melee users. Give it time, and your objection will be meaningless.

It's not particularly material which are better, however. Astral Storm vs. Legion's Hold both rock, they're used for very different purposes.

This isn't a discussion about which is better. It's a discussion about controller features, for which the wizard gets Orb of Imposition, and at-wills.

And that's it.

But, that's just the wizard, perhaps the next couple controllers will show things better.

 

[beepeearr]

I think I'm going to agree with a few others and guess that the Wizards Spell Book ability is his Controller ability, since it gives him a lot of more options than the other classes. Maybe that will be the controller schtick. Greater flexibility in power selection.

Like you said, each class get a class feature that allows them to fill their role better. As far as a controller goes, that does seem like the one class feature that really allows the wizard to fill that role, since it gives him the ability to plan for the upcoming day, something no other class gets, maybe future controllers will all have a similar feature

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Both wand and orb mastery are only 1/encounter and only affect one target/attack roll. snip In my experience, Wizards are horribly underpowered, and it will take something like this to make them balanced.

How much have you played wizard? Are the people you are playing with using some ridiculous exploit or something? I've only played 4e as a wizard, and I've been consistently the biggest damage dealer, and we have a paladin, a ranged rogue, a TWF ranger, a wisdom cleric, and a warlord. The strikers do slightly more single target damage but I'm hitting atleast twice as often due to area abilties. The orb being "just a 1/encounter ability" is really really underestimating its usefulness. I really think keterys has argued for the "lack of defining ability" thing very well, and I agree that controllers are the least defined in role, but to say that wizards are awful and underpowered is completely at odds with all of my experience.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Does any other class get an area at-will? With wall spells and multiple terrain altering spells that either create rough terrain or terrain that actually attacks and immobilizes mulitiple opponents? Sounds like their definition of controller to me.

 

[Hussar]

Something to keep in mind is that Encounter abilities are going to define the character pretty strongly. They are likely going to get brought out in every encounter. Not every round, true, but, you're going to see them every encounter. The orbs ability lasts for more than one round (hopefully), so, it's effectively an at will, at least for a couple of rounds.

Its effectiveness will generally be dictated by the length of combats. Shorter combats make it much more effective.

 

[Minigiant]

The wand of accuracy is a controller power too. Giving yourself a +2 to +4 bonus to hit is great when trying to debuff an artillery or controller creature way over there. It's good when you take a guy out for a turn or 2 when you roll slightly bad. The controller is all about taking the enemy out their game. Kill minions with AOE, remove/weaken actions of controllers and artillery with ranged debuffs, separate lurkers and leader with zones and walls, and take brutes and soldiers out of melee with speed modification and pushes.

Only the wizard, a controller, can do all of them. A leader is more than healing. A controller is more than AOE.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The Cleric's Astral Storm and Fire Storm compared to the Wizards Meteor Storm and Cloudkill plus the many Cleric AoEs that target only enemies are what really bother me. Those powers outclass the Wizards in just about every way.

Looking at cloudkill, it's so much worse than every other power of it's level, that either the 1d10 initial damage is a typo, or it's supposed to have some secondary effect on the area that it hits (weakening would be a good one). As written, you'd never ever take it over evards tentacles or acid wave.