Romans Puzzle! I have the solution! (The Puzzle that killed a campaign)

[Vocenoctum]

It doesn't come down to that at all. You should read my posts. I've never said the DM was bad. In fact, I've never believed that the sum total of the information given to the players by the DM over two sessions (eight hours or more?) was completely detailed to us so there's no way I could believe the DM was fully represented, nor was the puzzle.

Just like your posts to the other thread though, you simply went after the Player instead of the puzzle. The point of Tuzenbach's post was simply that folks weren't focusing on the puzzle as much as making it personal. I think your posts (while directed at the Player instead of the DM) are the same at heart.

The clues were in the treasure illusion, which would seem to say Roman didn't have any information that was not presented to the thread.

 

[Tuzenbach]

Sir, if you say the collected folks here cannot predict alternate futures (what would or would not have happened), then you should abstain from the claim that you can read minds (which you'd have to be able to do to tell us why we say what we do). Perhaps some did fall to the herd instinct, but the blanket accusation is darned insulting to those who did think for themselves and come to that conclusion.

No mind-reading, just scientific fact! If there's already an established norm (in this case, "bad DM"), anyone who chooses not to follow this majority WILL feel anxiety as a result. If you'd like, I could go through the thread and actually tabulate which/how many posts attempted a solution vs. how many posts straight-out disregarded the DM as credible. The results would not be "insulting" but informative. Remember, even though Social Influence is one of the most (if not THE MOST) powerful factors governing human behavior, it most always goes completely unnoticed and is therefore invisible.

I'd recommend doing a Google search for Stanley Milgram. His controversial experiments in the 60's showed that 66% of humans will kill another human for the wonderously miraculous sum of .........four dollars!

 

[Tuzenbach]

I can't agree. Even knowing the solution, it's not at all clear how one was supposed to reason from the information available, to that solution. Nothing about that solution cries out "This is right and nothing else is"; it's a pretty arbitrary matter. This is in sharp contrast to the professional math and logic puzzles I do on a regular basis; once you have the solution, you also have enough information to see that you have the uniquely right answer. There was nothing like that here; it's a bad puzzle.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Must all puzzles be of the sort where an answer HAS to be ONE thing and nothing else with no variance whatsoever? What about the Kobiashi-Maru?

 

[Mark]

Just like your posts to the other thread though, you simply went after the Player instead of the puzzle. The point of Tuzenbach's post was simply that folks weren't focusing on the puzzle as much as making it personal. I think your posts (while directed at the Player instead of the DM) are the same at heart.

Nope. Read again. Going after "the lack of information presented with the puzzle". What others folks were doing isn't my business or point except to clear up the mis-characterization of my posts. Not about the DM, not about the players, about "the lack of information presented". Not sure why that message isn't clear after repeatedly posting it, nor why you want to make this about something else, but "the lack of information" is what it is about for me. It's not personal for me as I do not know any of them so your conjecture along those lines couldn't be any more mistaken.

The clues were in the treasure illusion, which would seem to say Roman didn't have any information that was not presented to the thread.

Some clues might have been in the illusionary treasure, some might have been given at other times during the hours of the session not mention in the presentation post. I wasn't there and have no way to know. I'd be surprised if the DM presented the puzzle (as presented in that first post) and then said nothing more until the players ended second session and he ended the campaign but, again, I wasn't there and have no way to know.

 

[Mark]

Well, I suppose the clues could be hidden within the illusion. We did not wander inside, because we had identified a death effect on the illusionary pile of treasure. I guess it just struck me as somewhat strange, hence my comment, but ultimately the DM knows what was inside and I do not - heck, for all I know it could have been that there was an illusion that the treasure was an illusion!

Sounds kinds "Tricksy" like that Gollum fella.

 

[Greylock]

Looking at the puzzle again for the first time in days, I've got to agree that the puzzle only makes sense once you know the solution. And I think we only got a partial solution, as it doesn't spell out how and where symbols get placed. That part of the puzzle is still seemingly random.

The bit about putting a major clue in an illusion, with a death effect? on it.... jeez. I can't blame a tired and resource-low party giving the "treasure pile" a pass. Did it scream Death Effect? No, someone likely checked it out and the info was given. I'd say the DM should have given someone in the party either an open or secret Spot check. Something, anything, to egg them on.

 

[Tuzenbach]

And I think we only got a partial solution, as it doesn't spell out how and where symbols get placed. That part of the puzzle is still seemingly random.

From my understanding, it's this:


Circles = 29, 19, 13 = Prime Numbers

Triangles = 33, 21, 15 = Odd Numbers

Arrows = 30, 20, 10 = Even Numbers


The blank spaces:
2 = Prime, so 2 Circles
8 = Even, so 8 Arrows
25 = Odd, so 25 Triangles


BUT.....there are a few red herrings:

The group which is Prime (29, 19, 13) are ALSO ODD, even though the group which is ODD (33, 21, 15) isn't PRIME. I can see how this would be confusing.....BUT....it's something I would do, just for that purpose!

I'm sure there are probably more red herrings if one takes the time to look, such as the groups *seemingly* having one number each in the 30's, one number in the 20's (or pretty close with 19!), and one number each in the teens.

Also, the EVEN numbers are all divisible by 10 and 5 and 2 and 1 (30, 20, 10), while the ODD numbers are all divisible by 3 and 1.

Here's one none of you probably were willing to consider! Before the correct answer was revealed, I was contemplating taking 25 and reducing it to it's square root of 5. Then taking 8 and reducing it to its CUBE root of 2. Then taking 2 and leaving it alone (it seemed to make sense to my diluted brain!). Anyhow, this would have left us with POWER SIGNATURES of 3, 2, and (jeez, I should have paid more attention in pre-Algebra, huh?). THEN, you look at the THREE SYMBOLS and determine how many lines it takes to construct each. For instance, the Triangle is obviously 3 LINES, while the .....oh wait.....it wouldn't have worked anyhow........

 

[arscott]

Er, perhaps you mean even and odd.

 

[Plane Sailing]

< moderator hat on >

A quick friendly reminder to everyone - play nice, discuss the issue, don't second-guess other peoples motives behind what they say etc.

We all like nice friendly discussions, don't we?

</ moderator hat off >

Cheers

 

[Tuzenbach]

Er, perhaps you mean even and odd.

Ah yes, you're completely right! What was I thinking?

*goes and edits inane post*