RP Challenges: The Jaded PC

[Greenfield]

This more or less a stream-of-consciousness post as I explore possibilities in my campaign (D&D 3.5). I'm currently the DM, and the PCs are treking across the desert with a guide hired from a local tribe. He's maybe a 2nd level Warrior to their collective 14/15/16 level PC classes, but he knows the territory.

They just faced down a handful of Huge Monstrous Scorpion (CR 7), a challenge that would likely have wiped out half of their guide's tribe, and which they treated as the seed bump they were. He's in way over his head and he knows it.

The players are treating it like "all in a day's work, nothing to see here, keep moving..."

Now they spent two months preparing for this trip, and did a lot of "gather information" during that time, explicitly asking about their goal. There;s no secret about here they're going or what they're after. If their enemies don't know what they are up to then I'm not doing my job as DM. And while they did get maps of the water holes and the routes from one to the next, they then elected to come by a completely different route than any that they prepared for. They have no map of this area, but by he same token their enemies are having to scramble to prepare anything this far off the beaten track.

The PCs have an odd alliance though: Since ours is a Law v Chaos campaign they have friends in the lowest of places - Hell. They've received warnings before, usually delivered by Imp, telling them when they're about to walk into it.

If I use that warning mechanism they'll take it as "business as usual", resenting the Imp but leaving him unmolested because of that odd alliance.

Their guide, however, will be freaked out.

I could use a Lantern Archon just as easily and with just as much justification, but their guide will still be looking for a way out. All of this is more than he signed on for.

If I don't warn them they could walk into a TPK. If I do warn them, the price is that they'll pretty much lose their guide. He'll leave at first opportunity.

They have a Ranger/Druid whose Survival check is good enough to keep them from becoming too lost, but I don't honestly see how it could be applied to help them get "found" either. They're in the sand, where there are no landmarks, in a world of perpetual overcast where there is no way to see the stars, or even get an exact position on the sun. The best I can see is that he can Intuit Direction to know their general course, but without a map of the region or an experienced guide I don't see it doing a lot more than that.

Like I said, this is stream-of-consciousness posting, just putting my thoughts down where I can look at them. Feel free to comment, or not, as you see fit...

 

[Nagol]

None of them have access to Find the Path or any equivalent divinations? Can they get high enough to move the horizon to see landmarks? How many 1000s of miles do they need to cross? A party that level should be able to move a few hundred miles a day easily enough.

 

[Greenfield]

Find the Path is a nice spell, but I'm not sure how it works when the goal is unknown or uncertain. As in, "The way to the water hole" could be pointing to any water hole anywhere in the world. And "The nearest/next water hole" would be a real problem, in my humble opinion. It will either point the to the place they just left (nearest) or it will need to know which direction they intend to take. Plus, the place they're looking for is identified by an Artifact, so even if the spell could reliably focus in on an object, I'm not sure how it would lock onto that class of object. (They're seeking the lost Chariot of Helios, which legend says created the Sahara in its final flight.)

As for covering a hundred miles a day? Try 10 to 15. Difficult terrain (sandy desert) without roads or trails is 1/2 movement, and using camels (30 foot base movement) sets a standard at 24 miles a day before you count terrain penalties. Now camels don't normally suffer the half speed penalty in sand, but these are pulling a rather heavily loaded cart (yes, they did that, stop laughing...) and several party members are on foot, as is their guide.

They've already discovered the tactical disadvantages: You can't 5-foot-step to avoid AoO in difficult terrain (and sand certainly counts). They're now discovering the strategic penalties as well.

Teleport and it's ilk are not used in our game. Wind Walk would be their salvation, but they've never used it and I think they've forgotten about it. Besides, it won't take their draft animals which they need, for a variety of reasons. Shadow Walk would also work, though you can't really see where you're going, and thus can't really find what you're looking for if you don't know where it is.

As for landmarks: They're in the Sahara, literally. The western end of what we'd know as Moravia (Morovia?), and heading east. They're entering the largest stretch of featureless sand in the world, and they chose the route that left them with the longest overland route possible: They landed their ship at the westernmost point on the hip of Africa (don't ask me why). So "high enough to spot landmarks" may strongly resemble a low orbit.

The adversary, of course, can Scry them more or less at will. The PCs have a good Save, but one of the PCs has an exceptional mount, a relatively unique animal, and his Will Save isn't that formidable. They can just look for that horse, and they're there.

So, for better or for worse they've placed themselves in the worst possible situation, and are approaching it by the worst possible route. They only bought a map of the known routes (which they're off of) as a last minute afterthought, after much prodding by the DM. They also refused to pay the only man whose ever been where they're going for the information he might have been able to share.

Now the good news is that I can place their goal as near or as far from them as I like. I can also speed-travel them: "After two weeks of slow slogging, you reach..." kind of thing. So months in the desert can be reduced to minutes at the table.

Still, they are going to end up depending heavily on their Ranger/Druid to get through this.

 

[Greenfield]

I have a question related to the above: When you add the Fiendish template to a Vermin type (such as Huge Monstrous Scorpion), it gives them an Intelligence score of 3. (Vermin don't normally have any Int score at all).

Once they stop being mindless, do they lose that special quality that makes them immune to mind affecting spells?

 

[Nagol]

Find the Path is a nice spell, but I'm not sure how it works when the goal is unknown or uncertain. As in, "The way to the water hole" could be pointing to any water hole anywhere in the world. And "The nearest/next water hole" would be a real problem, in my humble opinion. It will either point the to the place they just left (nearest) or it will need to know which direction they intend to take. Plus, the place they're looking for is identified by an Artifact, so even if the spell could reliably focus in on an object, I'm not sure how it would lock onto that class of object. (They're seeking the lost Chariot of Helios, which legend says created the Sahara in its final flight.)

As for covering a hundred miles a day? Try 10 to 15. Difficult terrain (sandy desert) without roads or trails is 1/2 movement, and using camels (30 foot base movement) sets a standard at 24 miles a day before you count terrain penalties. Now camels don't normally suffer the half speed penalty in sand, but these are pulling a rather heavily loaded cart (yes, they did that, stop laughing...) and several party members are on foot, as is their guide.

They've already discovered the tactical disadvantages: You can't 5-foot-step to avoid AoO in difficult terrain (and sand certainly counts). They're now discovering the strategic penalties as well.

Teleport and it's ilk are not used in our game. Wind Walk would be their salvation, but they've never used it and I think they've forgotten about it. Besides, it won't take their draft animals which they need, for a variety of reasons. Shadow Walk would also work, though you can't really see where you're going, and thus can't really find what you're looking for if you don't know where it is.

As for landmarks: They're in the Sahara, literally. The western end of what we'd know as Moravia (Morovia?), and heading east. They're entering the largest stretch of featureless sand in the world, and they chose the route that left them with the longest overland route possible: They landed their ship at the westernmost point on the hip of Africa (don't ask me why). So "high enough to spot landmarks" may strongly resemble a low orbit.

The adversary, of course, can Scry them more or less at will. The PCs have a good Save, but one of the PCs has an exceptional mount, a relatively unique animal, and his Will Save isn't that formidable. They can just look for that horse, and they're there.

So, for better or for worse they've placed themselves in the worst possible situation, and are approaching it by the worst possible route. They only bought a map of the known routes (which they're off of) as a last minute afterthought, after much prodding by the DM. They also refused to pay the only man whose ever been where they're going for the information he might have been able to share.

Now the good news is that I can place their goal as near or as far from them as I like. I can also speed-travel them: "After two weeks of slow slogging, you reach..." kind of thing. So months in the desert can be reduced to minutes at the table.

Still, they are going to end up depending heavily on their Ranger/Druid to get through this.

Yeah, for movement, I'd look to rely on Phantom Steed or the Walk spells; they'll typically cover 400-500 miles a day without trouble. Heading out not knowing your destination is... brazen? How will they know when they are getting close or even at the site they're looking for? Divination, Legend Lore, or Contact Other Plane may be able to give the name of the location of the target and that will allow Find the Path to operate.

Barring that, Commune can give the approximate distance and direction and you go dead reckoning using the fastest mode of travel you have.

Heck Plane Shift and then return will drop you within a few hundred miles of your target (assuming you know one, see above). If you don't have a specific target, but have a general distance and direction, use that spot on the map as your target location. Follow that up with a Commune for direction and distance and they could be there in a day or two (so long as you use spells to move -- otherwise it'll be up to a month).

 

[Nagol]

I have a question related to the above: When you add the Fiendishtemplate to a Vermin type (such as Huge Monstrous Scorpion), it gives them an Intelligence score of 3. (Vermin don't normally have any Int score at all).

Once they stop being mindless, do they lose that special quality that makes them immune to mind affecting spells?

Yeah it should. The Mindless trait gives both the -- for Int and the immunity. Lost one and you should lose the other.

 

[Greenfield]

They know how to find the place. According to legend, the Chariot, as it came in low prior to the crash, burned the land and boiled the lakes and rivers, and blasted the skins of men black. (Taken directly from classic mythology). In the game world they're looking for "the glass road", a path in desert where the sand was fused into glass. The Chariot itself is buried at the base of what is essentially a mountain of sand and glass.

So once they get on track, there's a clear trail that leads to it. But they don't really know where the "Crystal Peaks" are, nor exactly where the glass road begins. They have been warned though that nobody who goes out on that road ever comes back, and that if you even try to walk on the glazed areas your feet will punch through and the jagged glass will slice the flesh of your legs, crippling you and leaving you to bleed to death.

Now, to make matters more fun, when they hired their guide they specified "the sea of glass" (not the "Glass Road"), a much larger region where there are large patches of glass on the desert surface. If you look in the Sandstorm book it will describe areas like that, including a nasty feature called Slip Sand. Slip Sand is sand that's been fused into smooth glass beads. These slide on each other easily, so if you step into the stuff you just sink. And suffocate. And there are no rules for digging yourself out either. Someone needs to pull you out, or you die.

Phantom Steed is another nice spell, one that can bypass many of the hazards of the Glass Road. But they don't have enough for everyone, and again they have that heavily laden cart with their supplies on it, and the camels, and the PC's favorite horse. And no matter how magical or high level you are, you move as fast as your slowest member.

As for the Divinations you mentioned: In our game world, one of the problems (aside from no direct sunlight for the past five years) is that the deities are absent or occupied, and aren't answering direct questions, not even via spells. So Divination, Commune, and Contact Other Plane are non-functional. The gods can't guide you here.

 

[Nagol]

What about powerful elemental lords with Contact Other Plane or are they tied up too? The area sounds good for both earth and fire.

 

[Nagol]

They know how to find the place. According to legend, the Chariot, as it came in low prior to the crash, burned the land and boiled the lakes and rivers, and blasted the skins of men black. (Taken directly from classic mythology). In the game world they're looking for "the glass road", a path in desert where the sand was fused into glass. The Chariot itself is buried at the base of what is essentially a mountain of sand and glass.

So once they get on track, there's a clear trail that leads to it. But they don't really know where the "Crystal Peaks" are, nor exactly where the glass road begins. They have been warned though that nobody who goes out on that road ever comes back, and that if you even try to walk on the glazed areas your feet will punch through and the jagged glass will slice the flesh of your legs, crippling you and leaving you to bleed to death.

Now, to make matters more fun, when they hired their guide they specified "the sea of glass" (not the "Glass Road"), a much larger region where there are large patches of glass on the desert surface. If you look in the Sandstorm book it will describe areas like that, including a nasty feature called Slip Sand. Slip Sand is sand that's been fused into smooth glass beads. These slide on each other easily, so if you step into the stuff you just sink. And suffocate. And there are no rules for digging yourself out either. Someone needs to pull you out, or you die.

Phantom Steed is another nice spell, one that can bypass many of the hazards of the Glass Road. But they don't have enough for everyone, and again they have that heavily laden cart with their supplies on it, and the camels, and the PC's favorite horse. And no matter how magical or high level you are, you move as fast as your slowest member.

As for the Divinations you mentioned: In our game world, one of the problems (aside from no direct sunlight for the past five years) is that the deities are absent or occupied, and aren't answering direct questions, not even via spells. So Divination, Commune, and Contact Other Plane are non-functional. The gods can't guide you here.

Thern I'd suggest Vision/Legend Lore to get enough info to get Find the Path working and shadow walking to cover the bulk of the distance. That way there is a chance they'll see similar landmarks to something that large on the Material.

 

[Celebrim]

Can't they just use Charm Person on a 2nd level guide?
Is there no 15th level PC with enough diplomacy skill to sweet talk a 2nd level guide whose attitude check has just fallen to unfriendly?
They are 15th level and don't have resources to navigate a desert themselves? Can's they just Bind an Effreti and make him be their guide?
I would expect 15th level Ranger/Druids to be not that far away from being able to guide a party across the trackless wastes of the Abyss or the burning fields of the Elemental Plane of Fire.

I'm not understanding how they have problems.