RPGs "reduce accountability and substite raw power for legitimate authority"

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Eosin the Red said:
Wow. I seem to be falling on the wrong side of the fence. As a person whose father has served time in a maximum secutiry prison and whose brother is currently serving 20 years in a super max - I wanna say "what are you folks thinking!" These are people who have stepped outside of society. We just had a 64 year old female raped, repeatedly and beaten so badly that she may well loose and eye and spent more than a week in the ICU. You want the sleeze ball that did that to someone who could be your grandmother to be able to game? You think he has "rights" like everyone else? No, he gave up rights to cable tv, Dragon Mag, and WWF the moment he began battering a metal rod against a womans forehead. He gave up rights the moment he sodomized her. He does not "deserve" anything more than the punishment that society has judged appropriate to his or her crimes. We aren't talking about jay walkers. We are talking about people who use and abuse other human beings for joy, sport, or to gain material goods without working for them.

I find it incredilous that people defend any right of anybody in prison.

These aren't the folks you want hangin out at the FLGS.

Although this is bordering on the poltical, there's also a lot of people in prison because they got caught with pot. Not everyone is as bad as your example. I imagine that some people in prison right now won't be considered criminals in 50 years.

Although I respect the judges decision, I do think that blanketly saying that "this is bad" is not as good as saying "this is bad if." Just as some crimes are worse than others and some punishments are harsher to match the crime, there are also some people who probably shouldn't be allowed to game just as there are some who should be allowed. Part of being a good judge is knowing what's appropriate: I hope he was being a good judge. I don't think I have enough information to create a balanced opinion about this.

joe b.
 

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Eosin the Red said:
We are talking about people who use and abuse other human beings for joy, sport, or to gain material goods without working for them.

I find it incredilous that people defend any right of anybody in prison.

These aren't the folks you want hangin out at the FLGS.


So, you are lumping rapists and murderers in the same group with the 18 year old who drove off without paying for his gas?
 

This is not a clear cut issue. Sure, like someone pointed out earlier, RPGs could be a great tool to help some prisoners. Non-violent or white-collar offenders, playing under supervised conditions, i.e. a DM that doesn't let them get away with murder. In other words no evil campaigns allowed unless there are realistic consequences for a PC's evil actions.

Other prisoners should not have RPGs. For one of two reasons. Either they can't handle it psychologically or they don't deserve the enjoyment that RPGs bring.

Prisoners who already are mentally unstable may benefit from certain structured role-playing as above. But never should anyone just be given books and dice and allowed to game on their own. Why? Because prison isn't supposed to be fun.

If you are in prison for rape, murder or some other violent or heinous crime, then you should not have fun. In my opinion, such a person deserves a bullet in the back of the head or a long walk and a short drop.

People seem to forget the victim. If your wife was raped and murdered, does the prisoner deserve to sit in his cell with his buddies rolling dice and having a good time?

No. He deserves no such enjoyment. There should be no cable TV. No weights. No gaming. Hell, they should never be let out of their 10X10 cell for the entire length of their sentence. They should be given nothing to do but stare at the bare concrete. They should have nothing to look forward to but the slop the guard brings them to eat. They should have nothing to do but sit and think about the awfulness of what they have done. Punishment must by its very nature be cruel or it is no longer punishment.

The problem with crime in our society is that there is no true punishment anymore. Prison is a joke. Prisoners enjoy all the freedoms of a civilian life except for the ability to come and go as they like. No wonder virtually every ex-con is a repeat offender. The opportunity cost to commit a crime is so low. A felon has nothing really to lose from committing a crime and potentially gets a lot of benefit from it.

Crime is neither funny nor glamourous. It is something that hurts real people. People whose lives are often shattered, never to be rebuilt again. Loved ones lost, financial ruin, and many years of pain and suffering are just some of the results.

Frankly the responses of some of you are utterly contemptible and disgusting. There are the jokers who think its funny. And the misguided political crusadors who think that these scum of the earth deserve this or have a right to that, etc.

You think its funny, for example, that some guy who kidnapped and murdered someone's little boy should get his D&D books in prison? Such a person deserves nothing but a life of pain and torment for their crime. If they even deserve to live at all. They certainly don't deserve D&D books.

I'm amazed that this thread hasn't been shut down.

And on a side note don't even kid yourself that prisoners are good customers. An acquaintance of mine knew a felon who gamed. All his gaming material was stolen from other people, outrighted shoplifted, or purchased with cash gained from selling stolen goods.

Last I heard he was back in prison for identity theft. To him its a game. To some of you its a joke. But to the person whose life was brought to financial ruin and almost destroyed, its a nightmare they cannot wake from.
 

Every prison in America should be torn down. No one should be caged for any reason. We have the electric chair for murderers and we should bring back whipping posts for other crimes. 10 slashes with a whip is a much greater deterrent than a vacation at Jones county prison. For petty theft, community service should do the trick. It costs way too much money to maintain these cushy hotels we run for punishment.
 

Norfleet said:
Something to keep in mind is that cable TV isn't granted to the prisoners as some sort of award: It's granted as an inexpensive means of keeping them from rioting.

Thats just extortion. "Give us what we want or we'll do something terrible."

You wanna keep them from rioting? Shoot any who riot. You are only out the cost of the bullet. Much cheaper than cable TV.
 

JRRNeiklot said:
Every prison in America should be torn down. No one should be caged for any reason. We have the electric chair for murderers and we should bring back whipping posts for other crimes. 10 slashes with a whip is a much greater deterrent than a vacation at Jones county prison. For petty theft, community service should do the trick. It costs way too much money to maintain these cushy hotels we run for punishment.

Yes! I agree one-hundred percent!
 

JRRNeiklot said:
So, you are lumping rapists and murderers in the same group with the 18 year old who drove off without paying for his gas?

Yeah, them 18 year olds who drove off with the gas serve some real hard time. What they get like 90 days in county if that? Heck, sometimes I don't even pick up my Dragon for 3 months. I think the gas lifters can do without for their weekend get away.

Prison is for BAD people. It is not for boys and girls who were chewing bubble gum in school. If you are in prison, tough. Don't commit crimes and you can read your Dragon Mag. Don't commit crimes and you can read Hustler. Don't commit crimes and you can run to Blockbuster or Taco Bell at your whim. Do a crime serious enough to get one of the big boy rooms and you deserve no compassion. You have no rights. You are an animal and should be treated like one. Hopefully, you learn the lesson my dog has mastered; "Don't @#$& where you eat."
 

JRRNeiklot said:
Every prison in America should be torn down. No one should be caged for any reason. We have the electric chair for murderers and we should bring back whipping posts for other crimes. 10 slashes with a whip is a much greater deterrent than a vacation at Jones county prison. For petty theft, community service should do the trick. It costs way too much money to maintain these cushy hotels we run for punishment.


That is a great dream. Unfortunately, someone would sue the Lashers for cruel and inhumane punishment. :)

It would get my vote though - but some people still need to be caged, primarily the mentally ill or the cognitivly impaired.
 

Gentlemen, you do realize we're not supposed to discuss politics?

How you feel about the criminal justice system is most definitely politics.

You do also realize we're also not supposed to insult each other?

Now, I wait for thread closure. Please keep these things in mind the next time the rest of us are having a civil, reasonable, and fairly non-political discussion about RPGing.

joe b.
 

Reality check: far too many of the folks in prison are not there for any sort of violent crime, nor even any sort of crime against society.

Within the California Penal System, there is a mandate to educate the prisoners so that there is a better chance of them not returning. A friend of mine is a teacher, and went to work for a prison in the area. Rather than follow the mandate established by State Congress, the Warden did everything possible to ensure that no education occured.

Oh, and the education that my friend was hired to impart? !st, 2nd and 3rd grade. To adults, mostly lifers under the 3 strikes law.
 

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