[RttToEE]Does anyone ever wonder...

[Psion]

I guess I should just pony up and admit that my REAL problem is not so much with RTTTOEE as it is with what are "standard" levels of magic for 3E - The idea of a lot of even so-called "low level" items bothers me and makes magic lose all its meaning.

See this thread.

The level of magic is pretty much the same as it ever was or lower. If you want something different, the impetus is on you to make that happen... just like it always has been.

 

[Mercule]

So, I guess that our all-stealth party is screwed? We've just about cleaned out the guard area by the upper CRM entrance, but it was tough and we've got a Blinded (by the spell) character now.

We are:
Elven Bard
Human Monk
Human Barbarian
Elven Fighter/Rogue (going for Duelist) (Blinded)
Elven Ranger/Wizard (going for Arcane Archer)
Human Rogue/Wizard/Thief-Acrobat (me)

We're basically a seventh level party -- I became the first to get 8th last session. The Ranger/Wizard only has one level of wizard and I'm pondering taking my second level this time.

So far we haven't lost anyone, but it sounds like we're going to be in a hopeless situation without any real arcane or divine support.

 

[Roland Delacroix]

Mercule: The wizard in my group (im the DM) ads a heck of alot to the group. He has scrolls and stuff for almost any contingency. The group fighter subs in well for the wizard though because she has Great Cleave. Getting rid of the chaff is important, either with Fireball or Great Cleave, so you can focus on the BBEG. Your non-wizard group will have some tough times but I don't think you will be screwed.

Of course a steal group has the most potential to get killed. Sneaking into an area that you are way to low level to handle then getting caught. At least you are aware of your weakness and can plan to compensat.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Don't take this the wrong way, but....

Your scewed, the fact that you have effectively lost a character via blindness (which could be cured by a 3rd level cleric) shows your parties weakness.

You need either an NPC cleric or someone needs to take a cleric as soon as you guys take a casualty.

 

[Saeviomagy]

1. Fire ball happy sorceror in a ten foot by ten foot room filled with oil.

And rolling a 1 to save.

2. Clumsy adventurer on a thin stone bridge over a lake of lava.

And not enough sense to tie himself to the bridge

3. Misplaced dispel magic

Which doesn't destroy magic items. Go read the rules again. It doesn't affect them unless they're directly targeted, and if they're directly targeted, they're still only suppressed for 1d4 rounds.

4. Big red dragons

Again, 1 on the reflex save

5. Stupidly worded wish

See below.

6. Bored kenders with a pair of sharp scissors

So, you're complaining about a published module because you lost gear to incorrect or house rules and seriously stupid players, is that about the size of it?

 

[LostSoul]

I'm planning to (eventually) run this adventure for a group that doesn't like dungeon-crawling (especially me as DM - that's not my DM style). So I'm planning on making heavy modifications to the module.

This is going to include adding more adventures in the cities with politics and intrigue. Changing the map so that the "boring" encounters are left out, just keeping the "necessary" ones. Making the Crater Ridge Mines more "active" and incorporated with the outside world instead of its own little self-contained place.

I'm also going to combine it with Call of Cthulu.

 

[MerricB]

See this thread.

The level of magic is pretty much the same as it ever was or lower. If you want something different, the impetus is on you to make that happen... just like it always has been.

Congratulations on sending even more ENworlders over to Dragonsfoot, pseudo-geek Psion!

Cheers!

 

[Darkness]

Re: Re: Re

I agree the Madness domain is cracked as a Domain for NPC's. The major downside to the domain really only would affect a PC since it hurts your use of skills so much. Skill use is not something the average foe has to worry about.

What about their Will saves, though?

 

[LostSoul]

Re: Re: Re: Re

What about their Will saves, though?

Which is a big weakness.

You could also let PCs gain the benefits of insanity (if they are willing to play it properly) if you think it's too much of a boon for the bad guys.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: Re: Re: Re

The availability of Greater Spell Focus doesn't matter much. 25 is pretty much a normal DC for a disintegrate not a hyper min-maxed one.

A standard array 12th level wizard or sorceror
15 Starting Int/Cha
+3 (levels)
+4 Stat boost item
------------------
22 Int/Cha

DC 6 (attribute)+6 spell level+2 spell focus=24

If you allow for some good rolls or a race with a bonus to the stat (like grey elf, sun elf, or Aasmar) you end up with a 24 int or charisma which gives DC 25.

If you allow for a single rolled or purchased 17 and a race with a relevant stat bonus you end up with 26 int or charisma for DC 26.

If you want hyper min-maxed, you can toss on Greater Spell Focus and Spellcasting Prodigy for DC 23+ spell level (DC 29 disintegrate if you're counting).

If you take prestige classes into consideration as well, you can easily get even higher DCs.

For that matter, the minimum DC for a disintegrate or blade barrier is a 19. If a character can't make DC 25 saves on their primary save, they'll still have trouble with DC 19. Basically, if 12th level characters can't make DC 25 saves, they need to find a new line of work because they're not cut out for adventuring.

(I would expect that the typical 12th level PC wizard has something like a +11 fortitude save (+4 stats, +4 con (including toad familiar or stat boost item), +3 cloak of resistance). Fighters should have at least +14 (+8 class, +3 cloak, +3 con) and more if they've multiclassed. I would expect a 12th level paladin to have close to a +19 fortitude save (+9 class, +3 vest, +2 con, +5 charisma) and +12 reflex (his worst save--+4 class, +3 vest, +5 charisma).

Just one point - Greater Spell Focus (GSF) is from Tome & Blood. The NPCs in RttToEE are created using only the core rules, so none of them have GSF ;-)

I'm running RttToEE at the moment, and my players are enjoying it, and making it fun fior me. We've had a reasonable amount of roleplaying, and they have done very well with their spells in combat. We've just about completed the moathouse, and the only unconscious character I've had so far was when the mage got attacked by the giant frog - yep, the first encounter of the module

Duncan