Rule of Three: 05/16/2011

[Incenjucar]

I'd refrain from tying the powers too much on the beast type, and let the player decide his beast type. Wererats, werepanthers, werebats and wereweasels would choose Dex-based powers and werebears, weretigers, werewolves and werecrocs would choose Str-based, but I think the player could be free to make a quick werebear that is quicker than the average werebear.

Agreed; this is my general philosophy on monster classes. Shapeshifters (not just werecreatures) are unique enough unique enough to have their own class somewhere between barbarian and druid, possibly with charisma and wisdom secondaries. Really, the main issue is watching out for MAD. Monster classes and races could very easily fill out their own PHB if WotC ever took the idea seriously enough.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Agreed; this is my general philosophy on monster classes. Shapeshifters (not just werecreatures) are unique enough unique enough to have their own class somewhere between barbarian and druid, possibly with charisma and wisdom secondaries. Really, the main issue is watching out for MAD. Monster classes and races could very easily fill out their own PHB if WotC ever took the idea seriously enough.

One approach might be something along the lines of you create your character as a shifter. If you want to be a full-on were creature then you can pick a bloodline feat or a theme or something that lets you swap in some more thematic powers. If you're happy just being a shifter ala PHB2 style shifters then you're all set, you can take a different theme or you could still take the were creature theme and just use only a few minor items from it. There could also be some variations. In a way you'd almost like to have sub-themes like hereditary Therianthrope, Cursed Therianthrope, Diseased Therianthrope, or whatever. Obviously overkill, lol, but you could do a lot of fun stuff with it.

Really, this all might best be approached as a 3PP kind of thing, or a whole supplement of its own, maybe a series of DDI articles. It seems like a bigger topic than just a bit of race/class/theme support, but not enough to really be a book. Could be part of a "Monstrous Races" book though.

 

[Klaus]

Agreed; this is my general philosophy on monster classes. Shapeshifters (not just werecreatures) are unique enough unique enough to have their own class somewhere between barbarian and druid, possibly with charisma and wisdom secondaries. Really, the main issue is watching out for MAD. Monster classes and races could very easily fill out their own PHB if WotC ever took the idea seriously enough.

Yeah, but to be a "monster class", it has to be a monster that any race can become. This works for vampires, and I can see it working for werecreatures, and maybe ghosts. But beyond that? I dunno, runs the risk of turning D&D into WoD. What non-gothic monster could become a class that allows for members of any race?

 

[hvg3akaek]

Agreed; this is my general philosophy on monster classes. Shapeshifters (not just werecreatures) are unique enough unique enough to have their own class somewhere between barbarian and druid, possibly with charisma and wisdom secondaries. Really, the main issue is watching out for MAD. Monster classes and races could very easily fill out their own PHB if WotC ever took the idea seriously enough.

I still think it would be better to have a template (DS wise, not the new essential-templates), so that you could play the barbaric werewolf, or the druidic werewolf, or even the werewolf sorcerer or rogue. Add a few core features when the template is applied, allow powers to be swapped out throughout a career. Then the were-whatever is an effect on the person, not something that immediately wipes away possible years of learning.

Going back to the vampire - this is why it should have been a (DS-like) template. You have vampires that have focused their time learning the arcane arts, and others that relish in just being really feral. You might have some that prefer to use a sword, whilst others spend their time in various animal forms. Allowing classes to work with them (and not instead of) allows the multitude of options that we see in stories.

 

[Klaus]

That's why you have a vampire class and a vampiric race. If you want to play a spellcasting vampire, play a vryloka wizard. If you want a character that channels his undead might to battle the forces of Slightly More Evil, play a vampire.

 

[Incenjucar]

Yeah, but to be a "monster class", it has to be a monster that any race can become. This works for vampires, and I can see it working for werecreatures, and maybe ghosts. But beyond that? I dunno, runs the risk of turning D&D into WoD. What non-gothic monster could become a class that allows for members of any race?

I've put a lot of thought into this issue, and I believe that -generic- monster classes are the way to go. There are about four schticks that any one monster actually has, and most of those can be very easily translated into powers, either using standard AEDU or the hexblade-like power development (Recharge powers!). And I have an extremely different understanding of WoD than you do if you think that monster classes are at all comparable to faction-based classes with campaign-determined monster sub-race. Undead and major shapeshifters would probably be their own thing, but you could easily boil a generic monster/mutant concept into one or two classes if you put the standard amount of work into it instead of going the Essentials+ route with it.

 

[Klaus]

I've put a lot of thought into this issue, and I believe that -generic- monster classes are the way to go. There are about four schticks that any one monster actually has, and most of those can be very easily translated into powers, either using standard AEDU or the hexblade-like power development (Recharge powers!). And I have an extremely different understanding of WoD than you do if you think that monster classes are at all comparable to faction-based classes with campaign-determined monster sub-race. Undead and major shapeshifters would probably be their own thing, but you could easily boil a generic monster/mutant concept into one or two classes if you put the standard amount of work into it instead of going the Essentials+ route with it.

I could actually see Spellscarred as its own "monster" class.

As for WoD, I was referring mostly to the "title monsters" of that game: Vampire, Werewolf, Wraith, Mummy... Any of those could be a monster class (or has been, in the case of vampires), but if you create monster classes for them all, it's gonna be a monster mash. Or a graveyard smash.

 

[Incenjucar]

I absolutely agree with you on Spellscarred.

WoD really doesn't use race or their equivalent of classes the same way D&D does, so I really don't think it's useful to bring it into the discussion unless you're talking about the prejudices that some geek cliques pick up which causes them to freak out whenever something that vaguely reminds them of something they don't personally enjoy shows up.

It would be incredibly inefficient design to make a class for every single sort of undead, werecreature, or other sort of monster when you could just have builds of a handful of classes, so I certainly wouldn't advocate that - it would be like having a fighter class for each weapon type.

However, I don't see a problem with a "monster mash." Many people enjoy monstrous characters, and D&D is perfectly capable of supporting their fun, now more than ever. The only thing you have to worry about are the folks with weird prejudices who might take offense to it, and they drive people away from the hobby anyway, so they're not much of a loss.

 

[Klaus]

The trick is coming up with a monster class that:

- members of any race can be a part of;
- has abilities that a character can focus on to be good at combat.
- has a broad appeal and can be used in most games.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The trick is coming up with a monster class that:

- members of any race can be a part of;
- has abilities that a character can focus on to be good at combat.
- has a broad appeal and can be used in most games.

Right, which pretty much boils down to vampires and were-creatures. There are quite a few variations of both, but very few other things that would work as a monster class. Perhaps certain other types of undead, but I'm having a hard time imagining someone really wanting to play "Son of Kyuss" as a character. Vampires have a pretty good positive image going in, but not so much other undead.

Yeah, I just can't really come up with much else. I could see variations on the vampire class for different flavors of vampire, and possibly endless variations on therianthropes, but pretty much any other monster I can think of really would have to be a race itself.

Personally I'm doubting WotC is going to go too far down this path.