D&D 5E rules for attacking with a shield?

[aramis erak]

A shield is not a weapon with the Light property.

Only weapons with the Light property can be used to make an off-hand attack, and even then, only if the primary weapon is also Light.

Actually, the rules don't restrict that way. You can use your off-hand with ANY weapon.

One only get the bonus action to strike if
(A) you have a light weapon ready in each hand
(B) primary attack is a light weapon in one hand
(C) secondary/bonus attack is a light melee or light thrown weapon in the other hand.

Nothing in the rules prevents you from wielding a pair of broadswords. You won't get a bonus action with them, but you can wield them both.

The Dual Wielder feat changes the conditions to
(A) You have a light weapon ready in one hand, and a 1 hand weapon in the other
(B) primary attack is the 1 hand weapon (which may or may not be light)
(C) Secondary/Bonus attack is the light melee or light thrown weapon

No where is handedness stated in the rules.

So, my right handed goon carrying a shortsword in the right, and a hand crossbow in the left, can choose to make his primary attack (the one using his action) with the crossbow, which is light, and that triggers the bonus, which is his shortsword in the right hand.

The rules don't require proficiency for the primary attack.

So, a shield bash, which I agree falls under improvised weapon, is effectively part of dual wielder already.
You make your shield bash the primary, and your rapier the secondary... Bash, bash, bonus-stab at level 5...
1d4+StrB + 1d4+StrB +1d8 potential...

And that two bashes and a stab seems very-much like how being harp-sealed* by Sir Kylson, Sir Alden, Sir Donnan, or Sir Georg felt... Real World Shield proficiency isn't just holding it in place. It's an agressive wearing down of your opponent's ability to hit you. It's a left-handed defensive weapon.

*SCA reference - somewhat hyperbolic - "being clubbed repeatedly like a baby harp seal" according to Sir Kylson. After the first time or two, you work on shield bashing... because, even tho you aren't allowed to hit THEM, you are allowed to shield bash their shield and weapons in SCA Heavy. And if you don't aggressively work that shield, any of those 4 would harp seal you.

 

[ccooke]

The Dual Wielder feat changes the conditions to
(A) You have a light weapon ready in one hand, and a 1 hand weapon in the other
(B) primary attack is the 1 hand weapon (which may or may not be light)
(C) Secondary/Bonus attack is the light melee or light thrown weapon

Nitpicking here, but: Dual Wielder says that you can use Two Weapon Fighting "even when the one handed melee weapons you are wielding are not light". So you can wield a pair of longswords, if you like. Or a longsword and a shield.

 

[ccooke]

Spiked shield is a peice of armor that is also used as a weapon. It's a specific exception to the general rule in shields. Specific overrides general, that's one of the first rules in the PHB.

Since fighters are proficient in shields, a spiked shield is a weapon,and proficiency in a weapon allows you to add your proficiency bonus to attack, therefore by the rules a fighter can use a spiked shield as a weapon.

Your ruling is a house rule that runs contrary to what's found in the actual rules. With the proper feat, a fighter can attack with a light weapon and Attack as a bonus action with a spiked shield.

It's not a house rule and it's not contrary to the rules. It is a ruling, though.
It's not contrary because nowhere is there a rule that says you can attack with shields. There are bits of flavour text imply attacking with a shield, but there is no actual text that says "you can attack with a shield" or "a shield is a weapon". Without any such rule text, the only way that you can use a shield or spiked shield as a weapon is via the rules on improvised weapons, and no class as standard gets proficiency with improvised weapons.

Note that there is specific text saying that everything on the Simple or Martial weapon lists is a weapon and that you can attack with them.

Anyway, this is getting a little too much like repeated contradiction, so I will not be replying to any more messages on this (precise) point. I will happily cede you the last word, should you desire it

 

[ExploderWizard]

Take a look at Lizardfolk. Page 204 Monster Manual and/or page 35 Basic DMG. They have something really interesting in their gear, a spiked shield.

Spiked Shield. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) piercing damage.

Judging from the attack bonus and damage, it's a Strength based weapon and a shield at the same time. I would say, it's kind of impossible to get that thought out of ones head, because an shield that you can attack with exists in 5e.

I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!! LALALALALALA!!!!

 

[pepticburrito]

The only thing accomplished by saying a spiked shield isn't a weapon is that the player is denied a treasure reward.

 

[Kaato]

What about this : A fighter with shield and short sword lvl 6. He attacks with his 2 attacks and hits with both. One could describe this as he swings his sword 2 times and hits with both slashes. One could however also describe it as : he charges forward crouches while turning arcing his shield against the opponents knee, making him stumble followed by stabbing his sword through the side...
Same damage, same statistics but it just sounds alot cooler. Just keep it simple with 2 attacks and a defense bonus for using a shield and use your imagination. ;-)

 

[77IM]

A knife does 1d4 damage. A club does 1d4 damage. A shield strapped to your arm has neither the sharpness nor the leverage of those weapons, so I have a hard time picturing it doing 1d4 damage as an improvised weapon unless you take it off, grab it in both hands, and whack people over the head with it. So I wouldn't allow an off-hand shield bash as an improvised weapon if you were still wearing the shield.

 

[aramis erak]

A knife does 1d4 damage. A club does 1d4 damage. A shield strapped to your arm has neither the sharpness nor the leverage of those weapons, so I have a hard time picturing it doing 1d4 damage as an improvised weapon unless you take it off, grab it in both hands, and whack people over the head with it. So I wouldn't allow an off-hand shield bash as an improvised weapon if you were still wearing the shield.

A shield is often metal edged, has mass to make up for the lack of sharpness, and (ignoring bucklers for the moment) doesn't need wrist strength, and uses the upper arm and upper torso. Further, many shields have a boss - a metal protrusion in the center. A shield punch with the edge is easily capable of breaking an arm; that's part of why the SCA (and other, similar groups, such as Acre) ban the use of shields against anything but shield or weapon. It's just too easy to get aggro and hurt someone. Also, the arm behind is often angled up; a straight punch with that arm catches with a corner of a heater. 2-3kg on a 1x15mm contact patch is directly comparable to a battleaxe. The Same energy is imparted to the weapon, and the same contact area, resulting in similar penetration.

The lighter, greek and roman linen and wood frame shields are faster still, and could had metal edging, as well. (usually bronze, if used.) They usually had a bronze boss, as well.

Now, steel bucklers go WAY back... and at about 1kg, they're 1-handed, have a 2mm to 7mm edge, and are much more easily swung; you flip the fingers out and punch... absorbing the shock on the pad of the palm... and get a nifty 50mm by 3mm blunt contact patch. Not so good vs armor, but hurts like the dickens against merely padded flesh. (Yes, I've accidentally gotten whacked with one... hurts almost as much as a rebated rapier.)

And shield movement is part of historical use, including shoves with the face of the shield, thigh stabs with the base-point of heaters and kites, chest and face hits with the corner of heaters and lozenges, arm and leg whacks with the edge of rounds, heaters, kites, lozenges, and ovals.

There is no good rational reason to not allow a shield worn ready to be used for a d4 bludgeoning.

Not to mention that many historical leather, reed, or linen shields had spikes on the edges specifically for gunging opponents with...

 

[Henrix]

My take, based on what is actually in the rules:

You can use a shield as an improvised weapon. That means it isn't used as a shield that round. Improvised, and so generally unskilled, deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage, not a light weapon.
(1d4 because of consistency. Easy to remember, and it does not matter much if it is 1d2 or 1d4. I could even go for 1d6 if used in two hands to batter with the rim, just because of fictional precedence*.)

With skill, that is Shield Master feat, you can also use it to shove others around.

Simple enough.



There's nothing wrong with house rules, but if you allow a shield to be used to attack and keep the AC bonus the same round (and even make it Light) it becomes a better alternative to two weapon fighting, and shield users would start taking two weapon fighting styles and feats. Which is really weird and steals the thunder in a major way from cooler TWF.




* Half a King or Half the World by Abercrombie, can't remember which, but I think the latter.

 

[jrowland]

During the playtest their was traction in adding maneuvers to weapons, so a whip might gain the "trip" manuever, e.g.

I still like the idea, and think developing a weapon-granted maneuver system might work. With regards to shields you could have it grant the "Shield Bash" Manuever. If you have any expertise dice (or is called something else now? at work, memory cells lack sufficient coffee) you can use your expertise dice to perform the "Shield Bash" manuever when wielding a shield. If you do not have any expertise dice (a cleric eg) you can perform the "Shield Bash" manuever as if you had 1d1 expertise dice (ie, you only get it once per short rest, and the dice always rolls a 1). Shield Bash is a proficient weapon attack that does 1d4 damage (plus str, plus the expertise dice roll). On a successful attack, the target must make a Str check vs. DC = 5 + Shield Bash Damage or be pushed 5 feet away from attacker (defender chooses).

You could do similar things with whips (trips), Great Weapons (cleave/whirlwind), Polearms (dismount, trip) etc

I think they key is to allow fighters and expertise dice people to essentially gain a maneuver option depending on weapon loadout, and for non expertise people to gain a weak expertise dice maneuver.