Rules for pistols and muskets

[Goobermunch]

Really, the combination of the heavy, large diameter slug was what made the musket so deadly. If you were hit by a musket ball, you were done as was your career as a soldier.

There are a couple reasons for this. In the case of a hit to a limb, the musket ball not only broke the bone it hit, but it also took out a substantial chunk of the bone above and below the point of impact. This, more than gangrene, was responsible for the frequent amputations in pre-20th century military hospitals.

In addition to ripping between 1 and 3 inches of bone from your body, you'd often get sharp bone splinters into blood vessels. Thus, even a wound that was not immediately fatal could result in death as bone shards made their way into the heart and brain.

Finally, there was (and still is) the problem of hydrostatic shock. The explanation is a little complex, but in a nutshell, hydrostatic shock describes the massive shockwave that moves through the body when struck by a bullet. It is highly debilitating and often results in blood vessels rupturing throughout the body (like in the brain).

As a result, I'd say that trying for a realistic system for firearms is impractical. Therefore the existing systems are probably adequate.

--Goobermunch

 

[Renaissance Man]

I use a hodge-podge of rules from Freeport: City of Adventure and the Spelljammer adaptation that appeared in Polyhedron several months back, with several modifications.

Direct-fire weapons (pistols, muskets, etc) are treated as ranged touch attacks. Indirect-fire weapons (blunderbusses, musketoons, etc) are treated as limited range area-of-effect attacks (no hit roll required, targets take half damage with Reflex save DC 15).

The Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat grants proficiency with all direct-fire firearms. Characters that normally receive proficiency with heavy armors may take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) instead, at their option. Indirect-fire weapons require no attack rolls, and therefore require no weapon proficiency feats to use effectively.

Misfire rules are as per Freeport: City of Adventure. Reloading times vary by firearm, but all are universally slow, and all can be improved (somewhat) with the Rapid Gunner feat (similar to Freeport's Firearm Drill feat).

 

[Desdichado]

I agree, but a huge part of the flavor of firearms is that they pierce armor (so swashbucklers don't wear much armor), and they often kill (or disable) with a single shot.

If bullets bounce off armor and can't kill people with less than a dozen shots, then firearms don't feel right -- even if other weapons feel right under the same rules.

What makes other weapons feel right under the same rules? I don't think any weapons feel right under those rules. It's either an abstraction or it isn't -- it has nothing to do with flavor. I mean, really, how many blows from a greatsword can you take and keep on truckin'?

 

[Eben]

quote:
how many blows from a greatsword can you take and keep on truckin'?

I feel the same. On the other hand, I can understand mmadsens point of view. As we agreed upon: it's about flavour. And for some the flavour of gunpowder will be the armour piercing quality and the deadliness (maybe lower the massive damage for gunpowder weapons due to high velocity?), for others it will be enough just to have them in the game as alternative ranged weapons. And if you run a swashbuckling style of game, there will be many reasons besides guns to drop the armour.

 

[mmadsen]

Finally, there was (and still is) the problem of hydrostatic shock.

A low-energy projectile like an arquebus ball probably would not cause much hydrostatic shock. Even if it dumps all its energy quickly (as a large lead ball should), it doesn't have much energy to dump.

(And then there's the separate issue of how real hydrostatic shock is in human beings -- as opposed to jugs of water.)

 

[mmadsen]

Direct-fire weapons (pistols, muskets, etc) are treated as ranged touch attacks. Indirect-fire weapons (blunderbusses, musketoons, etc) are treated as limited range area-of-effect attacks (no hit roll required, targets take half damage with Reflex save DC 15).

With apologies to Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

"Indirect fire" refers to artillery fire without line of sight (LOS), e.g. from a mortar or howitzer over intervening terrain. You could even make the case that throwing a grenade over a wall is indirect fire.

 

[mmadsen]

What makes other weapons feel right under the same rules? I don't think any weapons feel right under those rules.

I'm hardly a proponent of D&D's hp/AC system, but it's certainly possible to match the image of two heavily armored swordsmen to the game mechanics. Some blows deflect harmlessly, some don't, and the telling blow only lands after the victim's been softened up a bit. It works well enough for most people.

It doesn't match a gunfight very well though -- not even a movie gunfight. There, the hero's main advantage is that he never gets hit.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

Here are the basic, OGC, black powder firearm and artillery rules from SpirosBlaak.

http://www.bizzaro-games.com/free_downloads.shtml

 

[Desdichado]

I'm hardly a proponent of D&D's hp/AC system, but it's certainly possible to match the image of two heavily armored swordsmen to the game mechanics. Some blows deflect harmlessly, some don't, and the telling blow only lands after the victim's been softened up a bit. It works well enough for most people.

It doesn't match a gunfight very well though -- not even a movie gunfight. There, the hero's main advantage is that he never gets hit.

Ironically, I am a proponent of the HP/AC system (although I much prefer the implementation of it under d20 Modern than D&D) but not because I think it realistically models anything at all.

And it depends on the genre you're emulating. There certainly are plenty of movie gunfights in which the hero takes lots of non-incapacitating shots and keeps on fighting, including bullets to the shoulder, glancing shots, etc. Raiders of the Lost Ark has a good example.

It sounds like you want either a split system -- where firearms do combat differently than other weapons (more power to you, but I'd never agree to it in my game) or one in which all weapons are potentially more lethal. If it's the former, I can't help you as I think that's a bad idea and I certainly can't recommend anything other than "don't do that." If it's the latter, just use a lower massive damage threshold, ala d20 Modern.

 

[mmadsen]

Ironically, I am a proponent of the HP/AC system (although I much prefer the implementation of it under d20 Modern than D&D) but not because I think it realistically models anything at all.

I'm not sure it's an issue of realistically modeling combat, but plausibly modeling it in a fun way -- and it's less fun when you can't kill anyone with a well-placed shot.

With melee weapons, it feels fairly natural to beat down a foe and deliver a final death blow. With ranged weapons, it feels less natural to need to pump four, six, or eight rounds into a guy to mortally wound him. "Why do I always graze everyone?" This seems like a particularly big problem for a blackpowder-era game with single-shot weapons.

And it depends on the genre you're emulating. There certainly are plenty of movie gunfights in which the hero takes lots of non-incapacitating shots and keeps on fighting, including bullets to the shoulder, glancing shots, etc. Raiders of the Lost Ark has a good example.

I haven't seen Raiders in ages, but I don't think of action movie heroes as taking five or six gunshots to go down -- unless it's a supporting character going down in a blaze of glory.

Does the hero get taken out by a single shot between the eyes? No, he generally doesn't get shot at all. Then he takes a flesh wound to show us things are getting serious. He limps along or puts his left arm in a sling. Maybe he needs to bandage his head.

He doesn't exactly get whittled down, and when he gets the bad guy, it's not normally by whittling him down either. That's more how the final kung-fu fight works.