D&D (2024) Rules Glossary packet6

[Krachek]

You are making quite the circuitous route around the void in rest mechanics there. Players don't need to go anywhere or do anything during a rest & the returns on a successful rest are massive to the point where the closest analog is often on par with video game console commands/cheat codes. There's no bar they need to meet in action circumstance or support & no real chance of a death spiral. Players are given every reason to just shrug off any interruption like so.


When players do this it pretty much holds the campaign hostage. Players know the GM won't burn down their campaign with a TPK or throw out the adventure too many times to rebuild things if the group shrugs off doom clocks.

If you look back at past editions where players did not recover ALL hp, ALL ability score reductions ALL max HP reduction or have things like HD they could spend you can see classes that needed to actively do something* during a rest & didn't receive complete reset button results that obliviated death spiral possibility. Those meant that the GM had a credible leg to stand on when they said "you are in an area that you wouldn't be able to rest" as someone suggested the GM simply do through fiat earlier in the thread. That stonewall given to players is even reinforced with the continuation of short rest classes in this packet and an incomplete long rest that lasted at least an hour automatically granting a successful short rest.

* pray/study/provide care/get good sleep/etc from class to class.

DnD provide a rule set that can fit Lethal grim dark game, and Easy going kids and family game.
It´s up to the DM to stand his ground and adjust the game to fit the tone and play style he want Or find a game with a mechanics that reinforce his specific play style.

it’s ok if you choose to make PCs dead as soon as they reach 0 hit points, but don’t hope the official rule to do that. the official rules will aim a vanilla middle ground tone. In need go listen some Dungeon craft video from The Professor, it will help tone your own game and take what you need from a rule set.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Tetra seems to have certain requirements for the rules to be written such that they can DM in their preferred manner. I can understand the motivation, because some players just have this allergy to "Rulings" rather than referring to "Rules". So I don't blame them for wanting changes to those rules that allow them to not have to "make Rulings" and only play RAW.

Now I personally think that motivation is unrealistic and the game is never going to be written in that way (since every single DM has a completely different way that they think the Rules should be written so there's no "right" answer to how any of these rules should appear)... but there's no reason not to try and fight for it when a person fills out the survey.

Just don't go in thinking (general) you are going to get everything you want when the book is finally released.

 

[tetrasodium]

If the players are in an area were enemies are actively patrolling, there are hazards, or they are under some kind of time pressure they likely won’t be able to rest. A long rest is basically impossible in an active enemy base, and most groups will have to leave and come back. None of what you posted supported your argument in any way.

That's the problem. The recovery rules are so skewed that if "actively patrolling" is anything less than "rocks fall" oat one end and "I the gm am going to pointlessly troll you with pointless interruptions incapable of being a risk until you give up on this demand or we all pack up and quit the adventure". There is absolutely zero distance between those two poles of extremes and both of them reflect poorly on the gm

 

[tetrasodium]

DnD provide a rule set that can fit Lethal grim dark game, and Easy going kids and family game.
It´s up to the DM to stand his ground and adjust the game to fit the tone and play style he want Or find a game with a mechanics that reinforce his specific play style.

it’s ok if you choose to make PCs dead as soon as they reach 0 hit points, but don’t hope the official rule to do that. the official rules will aim a vanilla middle ground tone. In need go listen some Dungeon craft video from The Professor, it will help tone your own game and take what you need from a rule set.

Wow are you seriously making the claim that if the players are incapable of forcing a completed rest whenever they choose it makes the game "lethal grim dark". Granting that level of guaranteed access to recovery of "ALL" everything even if the gm hints at risk that should make it unreasonable is far beyond "easy going kids and family game".

 

[Krachek]

Wow are you seriously making the claim that if the players are incapable of forcing a completed rest whenever they choose it makes the game "lethal grim dark". Granting that level of guaranteed access to recovery of "ALL" everything even if the gm hints at risk that should make it unreasonable is far beyond "easy going kids and family game".

No I claim the opposite.
if a DM want to make a game more grim dark:

Instant Death at 0 hit points as you ask.
Remove : Rope trick, Tiny hut, remove curse, revivify spells from the game.

Two simple rules, will make the game much more lethal and challenging for the party.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Is the goal here to remove the GM?

Yes WoTC's ultimate goal is to kill all GMs and let players run the game. It will be a utopia where no one tells them what to do. Assassins are dispatched as we speak. There is no escape. They are invisible and have advantage on initiative.

 

[mamba]

That's the thing the rule ignores in it's design. Players describe what they want to do. Then the DM narrates the results. The rest rules are written to ensure that the results are always successful until fiat or an adversarial result that prevents going back to the initial "want".

which is what would generally happen… unless something interrupts your rest, you complete it successfully.

Not sure how you can fail at sitting without there being an interruption

 

[mamba]

Without invoking fiat what is "an area were they wouldn’t be able to."

an area in which the conditions of being interrupted apply, obviously that mostly is DM fiat, unless the party decides to short rest in the equivalent of a toxic pool

 

[Chaosmancer]

Here, let's fix the short rest issue, just for you Tetrasodium.

Spoiler

If your DM allows it, a Short Rest is a 1-hour period of downtime, during which, if your DM allows it, a creature does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, dozing, and standing watch. This can only be done with the DMs permission.

BENEFITS OF THE REST

To start a Short Rest, you must first get the DMs permission. Then if you have the DMs permission and have at least 1 Hit Point you may start a short rest. When you finish the rest, assuming your DM allows it, you gain the following benefits at your DMs discretion:

• Spend Hit Dice: With your DMs permission, you can spend one or more of your Hit Dice to regain Hit Points. Assuming your DM allows you to spend Hit Dice, then for each Hit Die you spend, your DM may allow you to roll the die, and, if allowed, add your Constitution modifier to it. You regain Hit Points equal to the total (minimum of 1 Hit Point) only if your DM allows it. Your DM can decide if you are allowed to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll.
• Special Feature: Some features are recharged by a Short Rest with your DMs permission. If you have such a feature, and your DM allows it, it recharges in the way specified in its description, unless the DM decides otherwise.

INTERRUPTING THE REST
Your DM is encouraged to interrupt a Short Rest in the following ways:
• Having the players roll Initiative with the DMs permission
• The players casting a spell other than a cantrip with the DMs permission
• The players taking any damage with the DMs permission

An interrupted Short Rest confers no benefits, unless your DM decides otherwise, and it must be started over to confer any benefits. Make sure you have your DMs permission before attempting this.

Better?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Honestly, and slightly more seriously, I am very glad for things like the rules making it easy to knock a creature unconscious. I have played in systems where to make it "more realistic" you essentially became crap at fighting if you attempted non-lethal. However, there are two fundamental problems with this.

1) The GM basically never uses those rules. They fight to kill, always. Meaning you are at a constant disadvantage in the fight. This is not fun for the player.

2) The Game World isn't real, and we play for fun. Do you know what happens when you make non-lethal attacks too much of a pain in the neck? The players stop using them, and just kill everyone. They do so, not because they want to be murder-hobos, but because they are sick of being punished for caring about the sprites in the video game. This leads to two outcomes.

A) There are no consequences, in which case they just kill everyone
B) The DM tries to either guilt them, or give them consequences for killing certain people, which just leads to the players being frustrated, angry, and killing everyone they can get away with.

Frankly, I've often found it far more interesting and enjoyable to allow everyone to knock out if they want, regardless of how. Because knocking out enemies means that they are planning on RPing with those enemies, and then I can have scenes otherwise impossible, because I decided to make mercy a "hard choice".