Rules on How to bargain

[Nakaz]

I didn't find any rules on bargaining price with npc, or bargaining sell price of items to npc...

I'm trying to build my own little house rules on that. So far i got something like :

This applies to selling items
Diplomacy roll :
result effect
1-14 -10%
15-19 0%
20-24 +10%
25-29 +20%
30+ +30%


and invert the table if you want to buy something...

Any ideals ???


PS: We're playing a mercantile group of mercenaries and we have a caravan and I'm trying to figure a system for buying/selling brand new items of all sort... We move from town to town following the adventure path and we sell our goods to the locals and buy some of their good to sell it to the next town... of course we're trying to make a cut out of it...

 

[Majushi]

I think that needing 20+ on a diplomacy roll to get any positive effect is a little hard...

how about something like:

1-10 -> -10%
11-15 -> 0%
16-25 -> +10%
26-30 -> +20%
30+ -> +30%

 

[Ryujin]

The scale should be based on the difficulty levels, rather than hard numbers. After all, Epic heroes aren't selling off used swords and shields, are they?

There are other things that should be taken into account. If you're trying to sell grain in a town known for it's wheat exports, then you should start perhaps 20-30% in the hole. Weapons, armour, or tools in an iron mining town? Same thing. Economies tend to be based on what they produce locally.

Want to make money? Buy luxury good in the centre of the kingdom and run them out to border keeps. That should net an additional +5-20%, but you'd have to find buyers who can afford the stuff. There's also the additional danger for running in the wilds, but that's why you make the (sort of) big bucks.

If you don't want to add in that sort of detail then it could be done as a skill challenge, but role-played out. Make the players come up with reasons why their product is needed, or why it should be sold to them for less. Give bonuses for creativity, rather than them just pulling a Peter Griffin.

 

[Nakaz]

You're right about all the details on local market and everything but i was looking for a really quick system to work with... the reason why i figured some high skill check for those result is that a lvl 2 char can get a +10 on a skill.. it it kinda burst the purpose if its to easy.. but you a right thought to lower the skill check target. What i should do is probable to follow the guideline in the DMG on skill check difficulty on DMG p 42...

Char lvl    Easy     Moderate    Hard
1st–3rd     10       15          20 
4th–6th     13       17          21
7th–9th     15       19          23
10th–12th   17       21          25
13th–15th   18       22          26
16th–18th   20       24          28
19th–21st   22       26          30
22nd–24th   23       27          31
25th–27th   24       28          32
28th–30th   25       29          33

Result                   Effect on price
< Easy                   -10%
Easy - Moderate            0%
moderate - hard          +10%
> hard < hard+4          +20%
> hard+5                 +30%

That way it would scale with the level...
We could probably add some circumstances bonus on the check if its a rich town, a market place... like a +2 bonus or something like that...


thanks for the advices...if you have anything else on your mind, please let me know..

 

[Ryujin]

I think that I would shift the skill target up into the moderate range for breaking even. After all, the guy that you're selling to wants to make a profit also. This means that a trader should be good at his job, in order to make a living at it.

 

[keterys]

I'd strongly suggest against introducing a buying/selling mechanic that would slow down play at the table unless performing that mechanic were strongly enjoyable to the players and DM. There are ways to get around that, but I'd say that making it more passive (you always get +/-5% kinda thing) or requiring a feat (+/-10% cause you spent a feat) would be easier methods.

I'd also suggest that Streetwise is probably a better skill for locating buyers/sellers and marketing to them, though Diplomacy certainly works for haggling with a specific person. Especially when selling things, it's far more important to find a buyer who actually cares... you're not likely to up someone's price by 30% just cause you're very convincing unless they really want the thing, or you're playing a con (which speaks to Bluff's effectiveness at selling...)

 

[Ryujin]

I'd strongly suggest against introducing a buying/selling mechanic that would slow down play at the table unless performing that mechanic were strongly enjoyable to the players and DM. There are ways to get around that, but I'd say that making it more passive (you always get +/-5% kinda thing) or requiring a feat (+/-10% cause you spent a feat) would be easier methods.

I'd also suggest that Streetwise is probably a better skill for locating buyers/sellers and marketing to them, though Diplomacy certainly works for haggling with a specific person. Especially when selling things, it's far more important to find a buyer who actually cares... you're not likely to up someone's price by 30% just cause you're very convincing unless they really want the thing, or you're playing a con (which speaks to Bluff's effectiveness at selling...)

Good call on the varied skill use. Streetwise could even be used ahead of time, to make sure that you're going to the right place with the goods that you have. Unfortunately this starts to lead us back to the skill challenge mechanic though.

Perhaps rather than being the actual seller, it would make more sense to run the group as caravaneers; just the guys who get the stuff from point "A" to point "B"? That way the negotiations are done up front, then they just have to get the cargo where it needs to be, with all the adventure that entails.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I'd move the DC's 5 points lower so that untrained (aka, "normal") individuals usually get the book (aka, "normal") price while trained individuals usually get a small bonus.

Also, bargaining a price up or down is more about Bluff than Diplomacy. And I would say that Streetwise is for find a buyer or seller of hard to move items (aka, items you can't buy or sell in the normal market at the center of town or any of the shops with advertised goods and regular hours).