Rules Question: Is a lightsaber light?

[Lord Pendragon]

So I'm considering whether or not to have my Jedi Guardian (future Jedi Weapon Master) dual-wield lightsabers. As a result of this, some questions have arised:

Is a lightsaber considered a light weapon, for purposes of TWF? If not, is there a special "light" lightsaber, or is -4/-4 the best you can get dual-wielding? If so, that would seem to make the double-bladed lightsaber a clearly superior choice, since the second blade is automatically considered light...

Are the rules regarding strength bonus the same in d20 Star Wars as D&D? (Namely, that if you use TWF, the primary weapon gains strength bonus, and the secondary gains 1/2 strength bonus to damage.)

Is it a free action to ignite a lightsaber? I ask because I am thinking of the double-bladed lightsaber. It could be useful to ignite one end, move forward and make a single two-handed attack (for 1.5 strength to damage), then fire the other end in the next round to make a full TWF attack.

Since there are no shields in the game, and there's no "greatsword" of lightsabers, TWF seems a sure bet as far as increasing damage. Is this true, or am I missing something?

Thanks for any clarification.

 

[Douane]

I'm no SW guru, but I'll try my best:

Is a lightsaber considered a light weapon, for purposes of TWF? If not, is there a special "light" lightsaber, or is -4/-4 the best you can get dual-wielding? If so, that would seem to make the double-bladed lightsaber a clearly superior choice, since the second blade is automatically considered light...

No, a lightsaber is not a light weapon. It seems general consensus on the WOTC boards that you need can wield a "small lightsaber" as a light weapon in your off-hand to lower the penalties, but you need an extra Weapon Proficiency: Small LS to do it effectively.

Since the double-bladed LS requires it's own Weapon Proficiency: Double-Bladed LS, I don't see any clear advantage for this course.

Are the rules regarding strength bonus the same in d20 Star Wars as D&D? (Namely, that if you use TWF, the primary weapon gains strength bonus, and the secondary gains 1/2 strength bonus to damage.)

Yes, they are the same.

Is it a free action to ignite a lightsaber? I ask because I am thinking of the double-bladed lightsaber. It could be useful to ignite one end, move forward and make a single two-handed attack (for 1.5 strength to damage), then fire the other end in the next round to make a full TWF attack.

Yes, it's a free action to ignite a LS.

Since there are no shields in the game, and there's no "greatsword" of lightsabers, TWF seems a sure bet as far as increasing damage. Is this true, or am I missing something?

"Increasing damage"? Why would a Jedi ever want to do so? Beware, young padawan, you stray close to the dark side!



Hope this helps!

Folkert

 

[Starglim]

So I'm considering whether or not to have my Jedi Guardian (future Jedi Weapon Master) dual-wield lightsabers. As a result of this, some questions have arised:

Is a lightsaber considered a light weapon, for purposes of TWF? If not, is there a special "light" lightsaber, or is -4/-4 the best you can get dual-wielding? If so, that would seem to make the double-bladed lightsaber a clearly superior choice, since the second blade is automatically considered light...

No, a lightsaber is not considered light, though it can be finessed. A Small lightsaber is a light weapon for a Medium character, does the same damage, but requires a separate Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

Are the rules regarding strength bonus the same in d20 Star Wars as D&D? (Namely, that if you use TWF, the primary weapon gains strength bonus, and the secondary gains 1/2 strength bonus to damage.)

Same as D&D 3.0.

Is it a free action to ignite a lightsaber?

Yes.

I ask because I am thinking of the double-bladed lightsaber. It could be useful to ignite one end, move forward and make a single two-handed attack (for 1.5 strength to damage), then fire the other end in the next round to make a full TWF attack.

Since there are no shields in the game, and there's no "greatsword" of lightsabers, TWF seems a sure bet as far as increasing damage. Is this true, or am I missing something?

At a -4 penalty, you'll miss a significant fraction of the time, especially against other lightsaber-wielders who have the best Defence scores in the game. This clearly reduces the damage you'll inflict.

The double-bladed lightsaber is the Sith Lord Exar Kun's invention. It requires a different Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. Very few Jedi would care to use one, teach its use, or give one to a padawan learner.

You can increase your damage by wielding one lightsaber in both hands, gaining 1.5 times your STR modifier to damage.

Another thing you should consider is where you will get that second lightsaber. The rulebook states that a first level Jedi begins play with a lightsaber (note, not a double-bladed lightsaber either). Your GM would be well within his rights to give you one lightsaber only whatever feats you chose. It's not practical for you to make one until about 5th level.

I'm not trying to restrict your concept for a Jedi Weapon Master, but it has implications that you should consider.

 

[d4]

No, a lightsaber is not considered light, though it can be finessed. A Small lightsaber is a light weapon for a Medium character, does the same damage, but requires a separate Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

just note that there is no such thing as a "small lightsaber" in the core rules. if you want one, you are going to need your GM's permission, and you'll have to hash out stats for it yourself. (i for one wouldn't allow it to do the same damage as a Medium lightsaber, but that's just me.)

 

[Starglim]

just note that there is no such thing as a "small lightsaber" in the core rules. if you want one, you are going to need your GM's permission, and you'll have to hash out stats for it yourself. (i for one wouldn't allow it to do the same damage as a Medium lightsaber, but that's just me.)

Not in the core rulebook, it's true. The FAQ clarifies this:

Star Wars Frequently Asked Questions

The FAQ doesn't state what weapon proficiency would be needed for a Medium-sized character to wield one. You could ask your GM whether you can use Exotic Weapon Proficiency (lightsaber) or whether you need EWP (short lightsaber).

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Thanks for all the responses, guys! I went to the FAQ, and all I could find on it was one entry:

How much damage would a Small-sized lightsaber do? The great lightsaber (Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, p.54-55) doesn't get more damage for being bigger, but would a smaller one do any less damage?

A Small-sized lightsaber (such as one that a Small-sized character might use) does 2d8 damage, just like any other lightsaber. Unlike most bladed weapons, a lightsaber's damage isn't determined by the mass of the blade.

So there are Small-sized lightsabers that do the same damage as Medium-ones, or at least the FAQ seems to allow that such could exist. That helps somewhat.

"Increasing damage"? Why would a Jedi ever want to do so? Beware, young padawan, you stray close to the dark side!

My character does not seek combat. He doesn't thirst for battle. But when it finds him, as it occasionally does, he's built to be a lightsaber fighter, and as effective a lightsaber fighter as I can make him. I don't envision this as meaning he's closer to the Dark Side. He's like a Japanese kendo master, who is most at peace with himself and in tune with the universe while he's practicing the sword. Doesn't mean he wants to go out and kill someone.

Another thing you should consider is where you will get that second lightsaber. The rulebook states that a first level Jedi begins play with a lightsaber (note, not a double-bladed lightsaber either). Your GM would be well within his rights to give you one lightsaber only whatever feats you chose. It's not practical for you to make one until about 5th level.

My character just made 6th-level, so he'll be making his own saber as part of his Knight quest soon. If I do decide to dual wield, the easiest thing would be for him to request to keep the saber he has, then use it along with the personal one he builds. Or build two, if my GM will allow it. As far as the GM being "within his rights"...he's within his rights to rule however he likes. Hopefully, though, he won't see my choice of fighting style as a means of screwing me over.

just note that there is no such thing as a "small lightsaber" in the core rules. if you want one, you are going to need your GM's permission, and you'll have to hash out stats for it yourself. (i for one wouldn't allow it to do the same damage as a Medium lightsaber, but that's just me.)

Well, the FAQ seems to indicate that it would indeed do the same damage, since the damage isn't related to weight. What I'm really hoping is that my GM will just let me treat a lightsaber as a light weapon. It avoids the funkiness of "small lightsabers" entirely.

Really, I think that two feats is a hefty enough price for either fighting style, but we'll have to see what my DM thinks.

 

[Starglim]

My character just made 6th-level, so he'll be making his own saber as part of his Knight quest soon. If I do decide to dual wield, the easiest thing would be for him to request to keep the saber he has, then use it along with the personal one he builds. Or build two, if my GM will allow it. As far as the GM being "within his rights"...he's within his rights to rule however he likes. Hopefully, though, he won't see my choice of fighting style as a means of screwing me over.

Ah right, that changes things. It seems late in the day, at 6th level, to start developing a two weapon fighting character, but as a Jedi Knight you have much more freedom to find your own way.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Starglim, you raised a few other points I wanted to address:

At a -4 penalty, you'll miss a significant fraction of the time, especially against other lightsaber-wielders who have the best Defence scores in the game. This clearly reduces the damage you'll inflict.

This is exactly why I'm having trouble accepting the (apparent) rules on TWF. As it stands, TWF is a dubiously effective style, at the cost of (at least) 2 feats. That doesn't seem appropriate. 2 feats for an extra attack at -2/-2 is reasonable. -4/-4 is not. Nor is requiring three feats.

The double-bladed lightsaber is the Sith Lord Exar Kun's invention. It requires a different Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. Very few Jedi would care to use one, teach its use, or give one to a padawan learner.

We're playing in the Rebellion Era (20 years after RotJ), so Jedi knowledge is scarce, and what is out there has been rediscovered or reinvented. In such a setting, I don't think that the double-bladed saber would have the same stigma that it would during the Republic era. And he'd be basically teaching himself to use it. If Bruce Lee can invent Jeet Kun Do, I don't think it's too much of a stretch for a Jedi Knight familiar with the single saber to develop either a dual-wielding or double-bladed fighting style.

You can increase your damage by wielding one lightsaber in both hands, gaining 1.5 times your STR modifier to damage.

Yes, this is what everyone in the party does now. That's one of the reasons I'd like to switch up, to have some variety within the party.

I'm not trying to restrict your concept for a Jedi Weapon Master, but it has implications that you should consider.

Fair enough. In all honesty, though, I don't believe there is really any in-game obstacle to these styles. The biggest issue is the mechanical side of it. i.e. what the core rules say about the cost, and whether I'm willing to pay it, or beg my DM to house rule it.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Ah right, that changes things. It seems late in the day, at 6th level, to start developing a two weapon fighting character, but as a Jedi Knight you have much more freedom to find your own way.

Well, we've only played a couple of sessions, so I'm still working out the character, as it were. Since he gets a feat at 6th-level, and a bonus feat at Weapon Master level 1, he could have Ambi/TWF next time he levels up, if I go that route. But I need to decide now before I turn in my character's level 6 write up to the GM.

 

[Starglim]

This is exactly why I'm having trouble accepting the (apparent) rules on TWF. As it stands, TWF is a dubiously effective style, at the cost of (at least) 2 feats. That doesn't seem appropriate. 2 feats for an extra attack at -2/-2 is reasonable. -4/-4 is not. Nor is requiring three feats.

Very true. It's much more effective with blasters, or, as you noted, with a double-bladed lightsaber.

We're playing in the Rebellion Era (20 years after RotJ), so Jedi knowledge is scarce, and what is out there has been rediscovered or reinvented. In such a setting, I don't think that the double-bladed saber would have the same stigma that it would during the Republic era.

edit: my mistake, wrong period, though technically that would be the New Republic era. Luke Skywalker would probably be OK with it.

And he'd be basically teaching himself to use it. If Bruce Lee can invent Jeet Kun Do, I don't think it's too much of a stretch for a Jedi Knight familiar with the single saber to develop either a dual-wielding or double-bladed fighting style. .. In all honesty, though, I don't believe there is really any in-game obstacle to these styles. The biggest issue is the mechanical side of it. i.e. what the core rules say about the cost, and whether I'm willing to pay it, or beg my DM to house rule it.