Rules that never made sense to you?

[Vuron]

Well, let's see, you are using Barkskin from a wand, so that's +2 natural armor. I guess you are using alter self from a wand too, so that would be shifting into a . . . annis hag? That's the only creature I can find in the MM that has a +10 natural armor bonus. But that's a monstrous humanoid, and unless you are one too, you can't shift into one. Unless you can show how you get to 22 natural armor, I call shenanigans right here.

For the rest, Force 4 is probably mage armor, which is actually just an armor bonus. Shield 2 would be a normal shield I guess. Deflect 4, I'm not sure, maybe you are thinking the shield spell, but that gives a shield bonus to AC, not a deflection bonus. You'll have to clarify here. I'm not sure what a CE bonus is, so I have no idea where you are getting that +3 to your AC. Dex 6 is pretty much just a 22 dexterity, so you started with an 18 dexterity and cast cat's grace from a wand, which limits that bonus to three minutes.

So, 5 wands, used all at once, can pump you up. Maybe. If you aren't thinking of shifting into an annis hag. And you are getting the deflection bonus from something other than the shield spell.

I assume he's using a +0 LA medium monstrous humanoid as the base race and using alter self to become a War Troll and then supplementing via barkskin to get the natural armor bonus. A dromite couldn't do it because of the small base size.

I suspect you could also do something via the elan and the aberrations but I don't have the time to figure it out.

 

[Nail]

Are you being skeptical just to get me to spill the beans, or are you really skeptical?

Both.

You've said "easily", "6th level", "AC 56". I'm now asking you to lay it out. Are you trying to dodge the question? (And is your Dodge Bonus to Interrogation AC that high?)

I'm not skeptical about the AC, BTW. High AC builds abound. I'm skeptical about the "easily".

 

[Nail]

I'm not sure what a CE bonus is..

Combat Expertise.

 

[frankthedm]

2 The Deflect is a Shield of Faith I bet. this would not stack with any other defection bonus

6 Natural AC from alter self into troglodyte.

2 Natural AC enhance from barkskin.

10 Full plate +2, this means NO mage armor spell, since that does not stack with armor

6 Tower shield +2, this means NO Shield spell, since that does not stack with shields.

1 point of dex.

5 max from combat expertice

3 more from fighting defensively thanks to tumble?

1 dodge from dodge feat

+36 from the core rules

AC 46 for a dwarven tank who figured out wands. AC 50 against a giant.

 

[Storm Raven]

2 The Deflect is a Shield of Faith I bet. this would not stack with any other defection bonus

6 Natural AC from alter self into troglodyte.

2 Natural AC enhance from barkskin.

10 Full plate +2, this means NO mage armor spell, since that does not stack with armor

6 Tower shield +2, this means NO Shield spell, since that does not stack with shields.

1 point of dex.

5 max from combat expertice

3 more from fighting defensively thanks to tumble?

1 dodge from dodge feat

+36 from the core rules

AC 46 for a dwarven tank who figured out wands. AC 50 against a giant.

I think you lose the dodge bonus against giants because you used alter self to turn into a troglodyte. You lose all extraordinary abilities of your original form that were not gained from class levels.

And you are suffering a net -11 penalty to your attacks. Ouch.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'm not sure I agree with that. From 1-10, AC increase is astronomically higher than to-hit increase (assuming you optimize AC via spells/abilities/feats and there are no items of permanent True Strike or the like. Making a 1st-level character with AC 40 is pretty tough, but a 6th-level character can easily have AC 60+ for four combats/day.)

Ok, so you still have to back up this claim.

Your claim is that AC increase is astronomically higher than to-hit increase from levels 1 to 10.

Alter Self has a 5 HD limit. In your other post, you appear to be claiming a 5 or less HD creature with Natural Armor +20 and has the same creature type as the Elven Artificer.

This is suspect.

And, you did not illustrate the other side of the equation. You have yet to illustrate that a optimized to-hit same level character is astronomically lower than the optimized AC same level character. In fact, you only posted some vague numbers and didn't even attempt to post both characters.

Without real support to back up the claim, it sounds totally spurious and dismissable.

 

[Hypersmurf]

AC 46 for a dwarven tank who figured out wands. AC 50 against a giant.

You're 6th level, so you can have the Leadership feat. That's +2 AC from Aid Another, and +4 from Soft Cover...

-Hyp.

 

[Nail]

You have yet to illustrate that a optimized to-hit same level character is astronomically lower than the optimized AC same level character.

Good point.


For giggles:
The average Atk bonus for a CR 6 critter (3.5e MM only) is about +12, adjusted for multiple attacks. If your AC is 20 better that that, you're "good". Can anyone show how most 6th level PCs would "easily" get to AC 32 four times a day?

That's easier than AC 56, surely.

 

[KarinsDad]

For giggles:
The average Atk bonus for a CR 6 critter (3.5e MM only) is about +12, adjusted for multiple attacks. If your AC is 20 better that that, you're "good". Can anyone show how most 6th level PCs would "easily" get to AC 32 four times a day?

No. All I can show is that with one defensive abjuration spell, my 7th level Wizard walks over to the AC 57 6th level Artificer and kills him easily with a melee weapon.

(Ok, I'm cheating with Lesser Globe of Invulnerability dropping 34 of the 57 AC to AC 23 and the Wizard's 4th level Half Orc Barbarian Cohort with 18 Str and a +1 Greatsword and Weapon Focus has +10 to hit and hits the Combat Expertise not doing anything else Artificer 40% of the time, 60% of the time if he stops using CE and tries to move away and use his silly low level wands or some such. Course as DM, I would use the Nerf Bat like this on such a PC Artificer).

 

[Nail]

Shouldn't that cohort Bbn 4 have a bit higher Atk bonus? +13 isn't out of the question.