Rumors from Player's Guide to Faerun

[GakToid]

So, rumor has it that Persistent Spell now uses a spell slot six (6) levels higher than the spell's actual level.

WOW!

That makes Quicken Spell look damn good at four (4) levels higher.

What does the public think?
Was Persistent Spell too powerful at +4?
Is Persistent Spell too weak at +6?

Who in their right mind would ever use it!?

-Gak Toid

[edit]Minor grammar problems.[/edit]

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I would still use it - divine favor gives +6 to hit and damage all day for only a 7th-level spell slot? Of course!

I think the biggest problem with Persistent Spell is that it was designed after the fact: the original 3.0 spells were not written with Persistent Spell in mind, so some spells (like divine favor and greater invisibility) would obviously break the feat as soon as it appeared.

Persistent Power went through the exact same problems with claws of the vampire and psychic vampire. Hmm... lots of vampire problems

(On the topic of metamagic imbalance, allowing Empower Spell to stack with itself instantly broke several spells and PrCs, and made some epic feats useless. In many cases (Incantatrix, Red Wizard) the PrC wasn't too balanced in the first place, but the Sage's ruling just made things worse.)

It doesn't help that at least some of those spells (eg divine favor) were probably not that balanced in the first place.

I don't really see how you can balance the feat without re-writing a host of core spells.

 

[shilsen]

What (Psi)SeveredHead said. Even with the spell slot 6 levels higher, I won't allow it in my campaign.

 

[rangerjohn]

Does it still require extend spell as a prerequisite? If so I wouldn't use it. That's too much investment, for someone to just come along and dispel it.
Especially since at +6 levels divine favor is probably the only spell it will work on. Unless they changed the personal requirement.

 

[coyote6]

I would have preferred a different solution.

An all-day detect undead or evil are maybe worth a 5th level slot, while an all-day +5 or +6 to attack and damage is too good for a 5th level slot; upping those to 7th level slots makes the latter more balanced, but make the former rather completely not worth it. Better to spring for a no-slot gizmo of detect whatever for 4000 gp, and forget that whole "depending upon your own abilities" thing.

So I'd have rather they simply exclude "spells with fixed durations (e.g., divine favor" from being affected by the feat, or something like that.

 

[GakToid]

Spell list

Cleric:
0 - Detect Magic, Read Magic
1 - Bane, Bless, Comprehend Languages, Death Watch, Detect Good/Evil/Chaos/Law, Detect Undead, Divine Favor, Entropic Shield, Hide from Undead, Obscuring Mist
2 - Find Traps
3 - Helping Hand, Invisibility Purge, Meld into Stone, Prayer

Wizard:
0 - Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
1 - Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Detect Undead, Disguise Self, Expeditious Retreat, Obscuring Mist, Shield
2 - Alter Self, Detect Thoughts, False Life, Gust of Wind, See Invisibility, Whispering Wind
3 - Arcane Sight, Blink, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Phantom Steed

I think that's complete.
Not a very impressive list is it? I guess using a 9th level spell to Meld into Stone for 24 hours could be useful. Or maybe not.

-Gak Toid

 

[Li Shenron]

I think +6 is a good adjustment after all. What I don't understand is why it should be forbidden to apply Extend Spell more than once for an intermediate benefit... so that for example you could triple the duration for a +2 slot increase, 4x for a +3, 5x for a +4, 6x for a +5 and then directly 24 hours for a +6 (if the multiplied duration is not already over 24).

Having basically a permanent effect for the price of daily using a +6 slot can be very good if the base spell had a short duration. Can I ask GakToid why you didn't include the ability buffs into the list? Is there any requisite of the spells to be extendable (such as fixed duration only)?

Finally, I am not sure if it would work for Detect spells, since they also require concentration, and I am afraid that once you lose concentration you cannot start again concentrating without casting the spell again.

 

[Darklone]

So the end result is: The feat is too strong for Divine Favor and too weak for anything else? Go figure.

 

[jabberwocky]

...
Having basically a permanent effect for the price of daily using a +6 slot can be very good if the base spell had a short duration. Can I ask GakToid why you didn't include the ability buffs into the list? Is there any requisite of the spells to be extendable (such as fixed duration only)?

Finally, I am not sure if it would work for Detect spells, since they also require concentration, and I am afraid that once you lose concentration you cannot start again concentrating without casting the spell again.

"the persistent spell must have a personal range or a fixed range". so that cuts down the list a lot, and no ability buffs.

the detect spells specifically work, and you don't need to concentrate to get presence/absence but do have to concentrate to get further information. it seems that you have a low-level concentration going on at all times that is sustained by the spell.

 

[Darklone]

Guess Deathwatch will rock. "Radar engaged."