D&D General Run Away!

[kenada]

Talking to a hungry wyvern is a tough one.

No wyvern encounters so far, but that would probably be something you should want to avoid. In the (not quite, since TPK probably is) worst case, you can scheme to get back whatever treasure or gear you used as a distraction if that’s what it took. The mechanics are different (I use 3d6 for checks rather than percentile), but this is all basically Moldvay Basic (link to the OSE SRD for reference).

Edit: We actually had a wyvern encounter in our Torchbearer game. Torchbearer is based on Burning Wheel, but it’s a love letter to B/X. I think we got away clean in the chase conflict that resulted when we failed to sneak past the wyvern’s nest. In that game, the loss of or damage to equipment would usually be done as part of concessions at the end of a conflict (along with gaining conditions, etc).

 

[Grogg of the North]

When the party decides NOT to run, you as the GM need to check your assumptions.

Do the characters know they're up against an unbeatable foe? The players may but their characters don't and they're not acting on meta-game knowledge.

Do the players/characters think escape is possible? What if the monster moves faster than them? Can it easily track them? Does the party trust the escape route to lead them to safety? Or do they assume that it will only take them deeper into the monster's lair? What about on their way back out? Will they have to reface the same monster?

Players may choose death over defeat. Especially when something important to them is on the line: save the princess; protect the town. As an example, I started a game where the players lived in a small town on the frontier. One night a goblin army attacked the town. As the lines of defense collapsed and the townsfolk began to flee, my players geared up for a doomed last stand in the town square. The forces arrayed against the players were, to me, clearly overwhelming. The party almost died fighting a battle they could not win to defend their homes. Ultimately, they only survived because I stopped play and asked them what they were thinking. You know you can't win this, right? You know that the goblins haven't blocked off this road here, right? If you stay and fight, you know it means your doom, correct?

 

[Reynard]

No wyvern encounters so far, but that would probably be something you should want to avoid. In the (not quite, since TPK probably is) worst case, you can scheme to get back whatever treasure or gear you used as a distraction if that’s what it took.

What gear would the wyvern want? If the PCs are traveling and the wyvern encounter comes up and the dice say it's hostile, tossing bags of coins at it isn't going to help. Best hobble a horse, folks, or one of you is going to get et!

 

[kenada]

What gear would the wyvern want? If the PCs are traveling and the wyvern encounter comes up and the dice say it's hostile, tossing bags of coins at it isn't going to help. Best hobble a horse, folks, or one of you is going to get et!

Food is most likely going to be the most effective, but wyverns don’t exactly have high Int scores. If the players throw something very shiny, it might go after that, creating enough of a distraction to escape. It all depends on how the players contextualize it. For example, they could sacrifice their pack and describe it as the wyvern’s grabbing them and their cutting away the straps to get away as it tears the pack apart.

Edit to clarify: The player decides what they are using as a distraction. As a rule of thumb, I should be permissive in my response. If it makes sense, they should be able to do it. Otherwise, you end up with a game where players are afraid to attempt anything except for safe defaults (like fighting — even when it is futile) because they can’t be certain they’ll be allowed to succeed.

 

[Manbearcat]

What gear would the wyvern want? If the PCs are traveling and the wyvern encounter comes up and the dice say it's hostile, tossing bags of coins at it isn't going to help. Best hobble a horse, folks, or one of you is going to get et!

The PCs were on a mountain expedition to a very remote location when their charted course spat them out to a large landing punctuated by a Wyvern’s brood recently hatched. The mother was hunting. Their Ranger tested to sneak them around (Scout vs Nature). It failed. I have a choice of Success but Condition or Twist. I went Twist. Mother hears her bridling distressed cries as they PCs proximity to the nest > Swoops in > Flee conflict (stakes are “do they get away and at what cost?”).

They won but she has Order of Might on them so I already need a minor concession due to that (even if they suceeed with all of their Disposition - Conflict HPs - intact). They succeeded beautifully with a big Defend test (which allowed them to regroup and recover Disposition loss) and then a big Attack (Scout test in this Confiict) to ablate the Wyvern Disposition to 0. The flee successfully into the glacial valley but I need a minor concession from them. I believe it was the Ranger’s Pathfinder Tools (maps, sunstones, travelogues, diaries) that was the cost so now the Ranger suffers +1 Factor (think all DC increase by like 3 in 5e) to any Pathfinder tests until they fabricate/purchase new ones; he lost them down a crevasse in the mad scramble to lead his allies safely from the deadly peril.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The PCs were on a mountain expedition to a very remote location when their charted course spat them out to a large landing punctuated by a Wyvern’s brood recently hatched. The mother was hunting. Their Ranger tested to sneak them around (Scout vs Nature). It failed. I have a choice of Success but Condition or Twist. I went Twist. Mother hears her bridling distressed cries as they PCs proximity to the nest > Swoops in > Flee conflict (stakes are “do they get away and at what cost?”).

They won but she has Order of Might on them so I already need a minor concession due to that (even if they suceeed with all of their Disposition - Conflict HPs - intact). They succeeded beautifully with a big Defend test (which allowed them to regroup and recover Disposition loss) and then a big Attack (Scout test in this Confiict) to ablate the Wyvern Disposition to 0. The flee successfully into the glacial valley but I need a minor concession from them. I believe it was the Ranger’s Pathfinder Tools (maps, sunstones, travelogues, diaries) that was the cost so now the Ranger suffers +1 Factor (think all DC increase by like 3 in 5e) to any Pathfinder tests until they fabricate/purchase new ones; he lost them down a crevasse in the mad scramble to lead his allies safely from the deadly peril.

Ok! You mention Pathfinder but mention stuff I do not associate with Pathfinder. I will admit I am not familiar with version 2 rules but I think you are importing concepts from another game. Could you break that sequence of events more. I am genuinely fascinated.

P.S I am a D&D DM only, I have not bothered with other games because my players have declared that they are not interested in learning new rules.

 

[kenada]

When the party decides NOT to run, you as the GM need to check your assumptions.

Do the characters know they're up against an unbeatable foe? The players may but their characters don't and they're not acting on meta-game knowledge.

Do the players/characters think escape is possible? What if the monster moves faster than them? Can it easily track them? Does the party trust the escape route to lead them to safety? Or do they assume that it will only take them deeper into the monster's lair? What about on their way back out? Will they have to reface the same monster?

Players may choose death over defeat. Especially when something important to them is on the line: save the princess; protect the town. As an example, I started a game where the players lived in a small town on the frontier. One night a goblin army attacked the town. As the lines of defense collapsed and the townsfolk began to flee, my players geared up for a doomed last stand in the town square. The forces arrayed against the players were, to me, clearly overwhelming. The party almost died fighting a battle they could not win to defend their homes. Ultimately, they only survived because I stopped play and asked them what they were thinking. You know you can't win this, right? You know that the goblins haven't blocked off this road here, right? If you stay and fight, you know it means your doom, correct?

I think the way you handled it was good. Sometimes one has to step back and examine the stakes, so the players can make an informed decision. In the wyvern chase in my post, @Manbearcat was completely transparent about the wyvern’s might, so we knew we had no chance of actually killing it (and the consequences of trying to drive it off would likely include losses on our side). That allowed us to make informed decisions and provided more agency than if we had just gone with default assumptions.

 

[Manbearcat]

Ok! You mention Pathfinder but mention stuff I do not associate with Pathfinder. I will admit I am not familiar with version 2 rules but I think you are importing concepts from another game. Could you break that sequence of events more. I am genuinely fascinated.

P.S I am a D&D DM only, I have not bothered with other games because my players have declared that they are not interested in learning new rules.

I'm sorry. I was building out @kenada 's conversation with @Reynard regarding the game Torchbearer 2. Kenada cited the Flee Conflict (topical to the thread and the specific thing under discussion; "fleeing a Wyvern") in our TB2 game where the PCs and their substantial group of Cohorts fled a Wyvern. Reynard asked "what gear would a Wyvern want(?" so I clarified about the gear question (they didn't give the Wyvern gear...it, the Ranger's Pathfinder Tools, was lost in the Flee Conflict as an outgrowth of the frenzied escape). I cite the procedure for that excerpt in the post above:

Situation > Decision > Vs Test (Scout vs Brood's Nature) > Failure = Flee Conflict > Result = Success (realize your intent "safely flee") w/ Minor Concession (Pathfinder Tools lost)

Pathfinder is a Skill in the game Torchbearer (see below):

Pathfinder
Pathfinders make and mark paths through the wilderness (use the Cartographer and Dungeoneer skills to find your way underground). The Pathfinder skill is used to make a journey overland and to Feint and Maneuver in outdoor flee and pursue conflicts.

Beginner’s Luck: Health Help: Scout, Cartographer

Gear: Maps, sunstones, travelogues, diaries

Destination
; Nearby (1)
; Short journey (2)
; Long journey (3)
; Remote or isolated (4)

+ Route Conditions
; Well-traveled (1)
; Infrequently used (2)
; Overgrown or washed out (3)
; Blazing a new trail (4)

 

[Reynard]

The PCs were on a mountain expedition to a very remote location when their charted course spat them out to a large landing punctuated by a Wyvern’s brood recently hatched. The mother was hunting. Their Ranger tested to sneak them around (Scout vs Nature). It failed. I have a choice of Success but Condition or Twist. I went Twist. Mother hears her bridling distressed cries as they PCs proximity to the nest > Swoops in > Flee conflict (stakes are “do they get away and at what cost?”).

They won but she has Order of Might on them so I already need a minor concession due to that (even if they suceeed with all of their Disposition - Conflict HPs - intact). They succeeded beautifully with a big Defend test (which allowed them to regroup and recover Disposition loss) and then a big Attack (Scout test in this Confiict) to ablate the Wyvern Disposition to 0. The flee successfully into the glacial valley but I need a minor concession from them. I believe it was the Ranger’s Pathfinder Tools (maps, sunstones, travelogues, diaries) that was the cost so now the Ranger suffers +1 Factor (think all DC increase by like 3 in 5e) to any Pathfinder tests until they fabricate/purchase new ones; he lost them down a crevasse in the mad scramble to lead his allies safely from the deadly peril.

This is full of jargon I do not understand.

When running traditional games like D&D or Savage Worlds, I don't like hinging everything on a single roll. So, if the ranger flubbed his stealth check it would produce a response from the wyvern, which would lead to a new situation the PCs attempt to deal with, and on until the situation is resolved.

That said, I tend to use journey rules for travel, so the wyvern encounter is already happening as a result of some other (complex) check.

 

[Reynard]

Food is most likely going to be the most effective, but wyverns don’t exactly have high Int scores. If the players throw something very shiny, it might go after that, creating enough of a distraction to escape. It all depends on how the players contextualize it. For example, they could sacrifice their pack and describe it as the wyvern’s grabbing them and their cutting away the straps to get away as it tears the pack apart.

Edit to clarify: The player decides what they are using as a distraction. As a rule of thumb, I should be permissive in my response. If it makes sense, they should be able to do it. Otherwise, you end up with a game where players are afraid to attempt anything except for safe defaults (like fighting — even when it is futile) because they can’t be certain they’ll be allowed to succeed.[/B]

I think we're in agreement, it's just the bolded part that varies. if I judge that the wyvern mama is looking to feed her brood, a few shinies aren't going to dissuade her. but, if the reaction roll came up "neutral/indifferent" it certainly might.