D&D General Run Away!

[Manbearcat]

This is full of jargon I do not understand.

When running traditional games like D&D or Savage Worlds, I don't like hinging everything on a single roll. So, if the ranger flubbed his stealth check it would produce a response from the wyvern, which would lead to a new situation the PCs attempt to deal with, and on until the situation is resolved.

That said, I tend to use journey rules for travel, so the wyvern encounter is already happening as a result of some other (complex) check.

What things do you not understand? I'll gladly clarify. In the post I already defined Disposition, Factor, stakes, Defend & Attack (in a Flee Conflict). Scout and Pathfinder and Twist and Condition should be obvious what they do.

Order of Might just means "physically more capable than you" (its a relative number) so bad stuff mechanically in physical conflicts/tests.

I described exactly how Torchbearer handles this exact situation; how the gamestate evolves:

Wyvern Brood but no Wyvern > Sneak around Brood to Glacial Pass > Crap Wyvern! > Crap FLEE! > Conflict to see how Fleeing resolves > Win Condition reached (they flee to safety) > Minor concession required due to Order of Might difference > Pathfinder Tools lost (down a crevasse).

I know the 5e Chase Rules. Have you used these? Have you used these in a similar situation (PCs fleeing a threat they couldn't surmount or didn't want to attempt to surmount)? Can you give us an excerpt with some mechanical underpinnings?

 

[Vaalingrade]

My advice to players is to run away from from games where the DM simply will not accept that you don't like running away.

 

[Reynard]

I know the 5e Chase Rules. Have you used these? Have you used these in a similar situation (PCs fleeing a threat they couldn't surmount or didn't want to attempt to surmount)? Can you give us an excerpt with some mechanical underpinnings?

I have sued the chasse rules in D&D. They are a little clunky and most well suited to urban environments. They don't work for dungeons very well.

I don't have a highly specific method for dealing with retreat, since every situation is different. I rely on the system as it is presented and designed, but my judgement and "rulings", and a whole lot of dice rolls to determine how it goes and what happens. Generally, though, if the PCs are keen on getting away, they usually can at some cost. Most enemies are not going to pursue to the ends of the earth.

 

[kenada]

My advice to players is to run away from from games where the DM simply will not accept that you don't like running away.

This is good advice because playing a game that’s about something different than what you want is a recipe for disaster. If players expect heroic adventures with curated encounters, and the GM is running a gritty sandbox with little to no curation, someone (perhaps everyone) is going to end up unhappy.

 

[Manbearcat]

There are lots of reasons why 5e Chase rules are fraught. The Loss Con/Win Con is very "roughed-in" (effectively GM fiat by extrapolation of their sense of the fiction):

"A chase ends when one side or the other tops, when the quarry escapes, or when the pursuer are close enough to their quarry to catch it."

Is that pretty much how you handle it; GM fiat by extrapolation of your sense of the fiction? Chase is over and the PCs get away when you feel like the situation warrants it?

Few questions (assuming the the answer to my above question is "yes"):

1) What state of the fiction would make you extrapolate a status of someone/everyone is caught!

2) Mechanically, what would that look like? Some HP lost for some folks/everyone and we're back into combat with a new situation (battlefield array, positions of all participants, etc)? Is there state of the fiction that would make you extrapolate PCs thrown into the stocks or PCs dragged off to be eaten or cocooned (or whatever)? What happens then?

 

[kenada]

I think we're in agreement, it's just the bolded part that varies. if I judge that the wyvern mama is looking to feed her brood, a few shinies aren't going to dissuade her. but, if the reaction roll came up "neutral/indifferent" it certainly might.

Sure. I was just wanting to emphasize that the GM should be permissive.

 

[Reynard]

Sure. I was just wanting to emphasize that the GM should be permissive.

But not too permissive.

 

[Reynard]

1) What state of the fiction would make you extrapolate a status of someone/everyone is caught!

2) Mechanically, what would that look like? Some HP lost for some folks/everyone and we're back into combat with a new situation (battlefield array, positions of all participants, etc)? Is there state of the fiction that would make you extrapolate PCs thrown into the stocks or PCs dragged off to be eaten or cocooned (or whatever)? What happens then?

For my part, it is about reading the evolving situation. Most of the time I have used chases, the PCs have been the ones trying to catch someone. The most memorable recent one was trying to catch the assassin running on the snowy rooftops after shooting one PC with a poisoned arrow (the PC survived but was in a bad way, so was not involved in the chase).

I set a simple threshold of successes in a "skill challenge" format (so not everyone had to rely on Athletics). If any PC got to 3 successes before the assassin did, they caught her. It was individual, so in the end only one PC was able to catch up. At that point it was up to the player and they said they wanted to talk rather than fight so they were able to block the assassin for long enough for them to have a quick exchange. As the other PCs caught up, I told the player that she was going to try and flee again and if he wanted to stop her they had to roll initiative. A new fight did not occur because the PC let her go, but had the PC not, it would have started a new round of combat and maybe chase.

 

[iserith]

There are lots of reasons why 5e Chase rules are fraught. The Loss Con/Win Con is very "roughed-in" (effectively GM fiat by extrapolation of their sense of the fiction):

"A chase ends when one side or the other tops, when the quarry escapes, or when the pursuer are close enough to their quarry to catch it."

Is that pretty much how you handle it; GM fiat by extrapolation of your sense of the fiction? Chase is over and the PCs get away when you feel like the situation warrants it?

Few questions (assuming the the answer to my above question is "yes"):

1) What state of the fiction would make you extrapolate a status of someone/everyone is caught!

2) Mechanically, what would that look like? Some HP lost for some folks/everyone and we're back into combat with a new situation (battlefield array, positions of all participants, etc)? Is there state of the fiction that would make you extrapolate PCs thrown into the stocks or PCs dragged off to be eaten or cocooned (or whatever)? What happens then?

1. The DM would need to define that for any given chase. It could mean that the hunter is adjacent to the non-hidden quarry at the end of a round, for example, or within a certain distance where combat begins again. The rules cannot cover every situation.

2. Just like resolving any other action, the outcome of the chase is now known (the quarry lost) and so they have to narrate the result, whatever is reasonable in context. I would prefer to say what that is up front (e.g. "If you're caught, escape is now impossible and it's a fight to the death!"), but the rules of D&D 5e never require this of the DM.

What tends to happen in my experience using these rules is that the quarry gets away because each participant is effectively getting a "free" Hide action at the end of every round and so the players use whatever resources they can to maximize the odds of success on the Dexterity (Stealth) check. If they succeed, they escape. If the monster is the quarry, they will tend to be caught unless they are particularly stealthy since they don't have as many resources to spend on hiding.

 

[CleverNickName]

My advice to players is to run away from from games where the DM simply will not accept that you don't like running away.

Bossy players are the worst, especially if they're gonna hold the game hostage until they get what they want. My advice to those players would be to pack extra blank character sheets.