D&D General Run Away!

[Vaalingrade]

Thank you for articulating that. If you are right (and I think you are sort of right) what is the answer: TPK or softball?

I mean, only if you consider treating the game as tailored entertainment and giving the audience what they're there for is 'softball'.

I know there are people who treat the game as if everything has to center around challenge, or 'teaching' the players to do things a certain way, but it doesn't have to be and that's not what everyone is there for. Talk out what people are at the table for to see how to proceed, and if that's not an experience you're comfortable with or willing to do, someone else might be able willing.

 

[el-remmen]

Thank you for articulating that. If you are right (and I think you are sort of right) what is the answer: TPK or softball?

My answer is that when the PCs are in serious trouble I try to think through and imagine a way where the foes might not outright kill them and lead to a TPK. That does not mean I will find one, and a TPK is never fully off the table - but I believe in playing the foes fairly and realistically challenging while rooting for the players. So if I can imagine a way to keep them alive that both me and the players won't think of as "cheap," I run with it. I don't think of this as "softballing."

Anyway, have you seen fast pitch softball? That's no joke.

 

[Reynard]

I mean, only if you consider treating the game as tailored entertainment and giving the audience what they're there for is 'softball'.

I know there are people who treat the game as if everything has to center around challenge, or 'teaching' the players to do things a certain way, but it doesn't have to be and that's not what everyone is there for. Talk out what people are at the table for to see how to proceed, and if that's not an experience you're comfortable with or willing to do, someone else might be able willing.

This thread isn't really about my table and my situation. that was just an example. I have been playing with these folks for, well, ever in some cases and they all know the score.

 

[el-remmen]

This thread isn't really about my table and my situation. that was just an example. I have been playing with these folks for, well, ever in some cases and they all know the score.

There is a tendency on these boards - esp. by some particular posters - to approach any topic as a problem to be solved. As evidence see my back and forths in my "All My Encounters are Deadly" thread.

 

[payn]

My answer is that when the PCs are in serious trouble I try to think through and imagine a way where the foes might not outright kill them and lead to a TPK. That does not mean I will find one, and a TPK is never fully off the table - but I believe in playing the foes fairly and realistically challenging while rooting for the players. So if I can imagine a way to keep them alive that both me and the players won't think of as "cheap," I run with it. I don't think of this as "softballing."

Anyway, have you seen fast pitch softball? That's no joke.

Oh man that reminds me of my Father who is unfortunately very sick right now. He is in the Minnesota fast pitch softball hall of fame. Its a thing, trust me, I didnt think so either.

The comparison is very apt though. Some folks want to just get together after work toss a few balls and have a few beers. Its very casual and chill and just about any skill level is welcome. Others are very competitive and take the game to another level. You need to be able to keep up and pull your weight. They too, like fun and beers, but you better be bringing your A game when you show up.

 

[Vaalingrade]

This thread isn't really about my table and my situation. that was just an example. I have been playing with these folks for, well, ever in some cases and they all know the score.

I promise I'm not trying to be mean here but... do you?

You've told them how you're going to do things, but are you listening to them about how they're going to do things?

 

[Reynard]

I promise I'm not trying to be mean here but... do you?

You've told them how you're going to do things, but are you listening to them about how they're going to do things?

Seriously.

 

[MGibster]

DMs tend to try to be authors at least at some point in our careers. We are always looking to generate conflict and drama. A hopeless battle where the heroes break and flee, and all is lost to us feels moving and romantic and overall like a good moment.

I would have to agree with you. I'm thinking of Star Wars: A New Hope, where are heroes are on the run from storm troopers in an effort to escape the Death Star. In a D&D game, the players would most likely prefer if their characters smashed through all the storm troopers and had a final battle with the evil space wizard before escaping. But as the audience watching the movie, we're fine with the heroes evading the entire time and making their escape because its exciting.

 

[MarkB]

I would have to agree with you. I'm thinking of Star Wars: A New Hope, where are heroes are on the run from storm troopers in an effort to escape the Death Star. In a D&D game, the players would most likely prefer if their characters smashed through all the storm troopers and had a final battle with the evil space wizard before escaping. But as the audience watching the movie, we're fine with the heroes evading the entire time and making their escape because its exciting.

It's a matter of which type of story you're telling just as much as how you're experiencing it. I've felt that "rather die than run away" mindset as a player in D&D, very much so - but in, say, Blades in the Dark, that viewpoint would seem quite alien. We're playing the underdogs, of course we run away when the guards show up in force!

It may be a combination of that different narrative as well as the different game mechanics that represent it. In BitD, running away from the guards is resolved using exactly the same mechanics as fighting the guards, so there's no real disconnect when transitioning from one to the other. And gameplay is experienced at a more abstracted level, with each roll resolving larger portions of narrative, so it doesn't feel quite so zoomed-in on what you're going through in-character.

 

[Shiroiken]

As a DM, my players are more than willing to run away. They do this because they know I'm more than willing to kill every PC without hesitation (and often with a grin on my face). I'm the "killer DM," who doesn't design encounters, but rather entire adventures. I give out XP for exploration and social encounters as well, since this de-emphasizes the focus on combat as the solution.

As for the mechanics of running away, I use a modified chase rules. The chase is not based purely on speed, but involves contested group Con/Athletics checks (individuals can choose to leave allies behind). Winning several checks causes the fleeing party to escape, while failing checks resumes combat without the ability to flee a second time. Higher speed and other moving bonus adjusts the number of checks needed to succeed/fail.