Run While Slowed?

[Mistwell]

Not sure how this is useless...

Goblin runner, slowed, attempts to run for his life and alert other goblins to the presence of the intruders!

He goes 2+2 for first part, then 2+2 for second part, and has all the negatives for running full out...

Dwarf Fighter in full plate leisurely strolls after him for first move, 5, and charges on second half for 5, does not give up anything really... and whacks him in the head, marking him...

where is useless?

I definitely think this ruling makes the Slow condition significantly weaker, but I am OK with it depending on what the double move ruling is.

Last night I hit a fleeing Kobold with a slowed condition from my encounter power, and the slow effect lasted one round. The kobold then shifted 1 as a minor action, and double moved ran for 8 more squares, for a total of 9 squares. That is silly, and demonstrates just how useless the slowed condition is.

If hitting a fleeing creature with a slow effect doesn't strongly increase the odds of their escaping for at least one round, then I doubt slow will ever come in handy for anything.

I could have hit the thing with a MISSED icy terrain and slowed it down about as much as the Slow effect that hit, due to the difficult terrain it causes (which would cancel it's shift and some movement, and caused an opportunity attack from the lost shift). That is a silly result. A hit from a slow effect encounter power should slow something down more than a miss from a difficult terrain encounter power.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What's your opinion on a double move run? 8 squares or 6?

As written, I'd say 6... but using different logic to Mistwell's.

Rather than 2 for the first move, 2 for the second move, and 2 for running, I'd say it's actually 2 for the first and second moves, and the +2 for running gets added twice.

As the rule states, a double move uses one speed... so if you normally have a speed of 5, and you double-walk, you move with a speed of 10... which gets limited to 2 because you're slowed.

I you normally have a speed of 5, and you double-run, you move with a speed of 10... which gets limited to 2 because you're slowed... but you add two squares each time you take the run action.

Now, a kobold who can shift as a minor action could still move 9 squares while slowed... because he can avoid taking a double move. He can run (speed of 2, +2), shift as a minor action (1), and then run again (speed of 2, +2). Because he never takes the same type of move twice in a row, the speeds of his two run actions do not become a single speed which will be limited by the Slow spell.

Yes. A "double move" is two separate move actions; if the first is interrupted you still have an action left. For convenience and brevity we frequently say in play "I double move to this square" when we really mean "I move to this square, then move again to this one", but it's the same thing.

You can't walk to this square and then walk again to this one without it being a double move action; if you take the same type of move action twice in a row in the same turn, it is a double move. (PHB p284: If you take the same move action twice in a row - two walks, two runs, two shifts, two crawls - you’re taking a double move.) But if you walk to this square and then run to this one, it is not (and cannot be) a double move action.

If someone is running, has already moved two squares, and then is slowed, they immediately stop... and at that point, they have a move action remaining, but if they use it to Run, the action that was interrupted becomes a double move action that has already been interrupted, and no further progress is made. If, instead, they use their remaining move action to walk, they will move 2 squares.

-Hyp.

 

[On Puget Sound]

So the goblin made 9 squares of distance, instead of 17. That's almost a 50% reduction, which seems about right for an effect called "slow". If you were looking for "immobilize", you need a different effect.

 

[-Avalon-]

well, as I see it there are a few issues here:

1- Slow will reduce a person to moving only 8 per round going full out

2- Dazed will reduce a person to moving only 8 per round going full out

roughly equal in balance really.

I think the object here is a need to ready an action for runners. "If a monster runs, I use X Power on it" X power has slow involved which halts its movement for the round.

Maybe a HR for this: Since a player can spend an action point for an extra standard action, and standard actions can be readied, a player can ready an action point each rd for possible immediate responses.

Does this sound plausible? It would allow the archer to see monsters run off and quickly go for the twink strike take down!

 

[Syrsuro]

Ah, good. That settles that part, for me.

It does not settle the double move issue however.

A double move is simply using a move action to move and then downgrading the standard to a move action and moving again (with some bonus effects involving occupied midpoints and odd numbered speeds).

To put it another way: Since you can always just do the downgrade listed above - anything that makes a double move less effective than two standard moves is clearly not credible.

Since a standard move (not running) is 2, a double move is 4.

And since a standard move (running) is 4, a 'double move' (running) is 8.

The point is that the slow spell does NOT restrict your movement to 2 squares in a turn. A slow spell reduces your speed to 2. Your 'speed' is specifically defined as "your base walking speed" (page 283).

And when you run, you move "up to your speed +2". Again - your speed is now set to 2. So you run at 2+2 or 4. In a single move action. In two move actions, you can do that twice, for 8 squares. If the run action was written differently - if it said that your speed increased by two, then slow would reduce this to 2 (i.e. not allow it to be increased). But that is not how slow/run is defined.

BTW: just to be clear, you crawl at 1 while slowed because you move at half your speed and your speed is 2.

Also, because armor applies a penalty to your speed (which is now 2), wearing certain type of armor will reduce your speed to 1.

Essentially - slow changes the base speed value for the character from 6 (or 5 or 7 depending on the race) to 2.

Carl

 

[spinmd]

This is from the ASK WIZARDS section of the Wizards website dated July 15


Q: Can a creature run while affected by the slowed condition?

A: Yes. The slowed condition reduces your speed to 2 squares. When you run, you move your speed +2 squares. Unlike the slowed condition, the run action does not change your speed; it allows you to move two extra squares beyond your speed at the cost of a -5 penalty to attack rolls, granting combat advantage until the start of your next turn, and provoking opportunity attacks.

So, you can run while slowed.

EDIT: Already mentioned, guess I should read the whole thread

 

[Mistwell]

So the goblin made 9 squares of distance, instead of 17. That's almost a 50% reduction, which seems about right for an effect called "slow". If you were looking for "immobilize", you need a different effect.

No by my calculation the kobold made it 9 instead of 15 (shift 1, move 5+2, move 5+2 = 15). That's more like "Somewhat Vaguely Slower" rather than "Slowed". Either way it's a case where melee attackers will have to move and charge just to have a shot at hitting the fleeing creature, where slow in my opinion should prevent that amount of distance for the one round it is in effect. It also should not be worse than something like Icy Terrain for slowing things down and getting a hit at them.

 

[malraux]

IME, running is a bad thing for a creature to do. Granting CA is never a good thing to do, as then the rogue can sneak attack at ranged. Alternatively, the rogue, who usual has good speed, can get adjacent and attack, gets another attack when the creature runs on its next turn, etc. Being slowed and then forced to run isn't just a speed factor, its how much effort the creature has to spend to get that speed.

 

[Morrus]

I found that other thread.

The other thread had two answers from customer service, and each was opposite of the other. One said you can go 2 squares, and the other 4 squares. So, it has not been addressed by customer service as you say.

Here is the text from that thread:



Also in the thread, while you felt running while slowed got you 4 squares, many others disagreed. There was no consensus in that thread, so I do not agree there is a short answer on this one. In fact, in that other thread, 5 people felt you can move 2 (bobthedog, PAkid, Wurm1234, zlorf, and Shadewyn), while 4 people felt you could move 4 (Morrus, Asmor, jdpacheco, and bonethug0108). So your position didn't even have a majority in that thread, much less a short answer consensus!

Unless you are thinking of another thread, it seems this is still quite undecided.

Calm yourself, Mistwell! Down boy!

I was referring to an item on the official site, not a thread here. I'll see if I can find it later.

 

[Hambot]

I'm so glad I found this thread. It was starting to bug me while staring at the DMG screen.

I can see that hypersmurfs legal text like ruling based on reading the rules is technically correct, but I always think of double move as 2 separate moves as it hurts my head less that way. Still something slowed and running flat out is not exactly making super use of its actions unless it is trying to warn others. And others could double run until they were within charging distance so it does make sense.