Running + Dex bonus

[Hypersmurf]

Sure. The only repercussion of such a 'status' I can think of is a nearby spear-wielder on a later initiative 5'-stepping in to ready(set) and attack the charger for double damage, but on PHB160 under readied action it says that the readied action occurs and is resolved just before its specified trigger: "The action occurs just before the action that triggered it." Thus making this a non-permissable move, as the charge had already ocurred making said initiatve too late to ready an action.

Then how do you rule the usual use of the Ready action against a charge?

Let's say someone charges towards me, where I have used the Ready action to prepare an attack with my longspear.

My readied action is triggered, and occurs just before the triggering action. The triggering action is the Charge action taken by my opponent, and just before that action, my opponent is still twenty feet away - too far for me to reach with my longspear.

Similarly, "I Ready an action to shoot anyone who opens the door". The triggering action is the Open Door action... and just before that action, the door is closed and my target has total cover against my shot.

Are there any other repercussions of one being considered a 'charging creature' through to its next turn that I'll have missed?

The lance will deal double damage on any AoOs provoked later that round, since the AoO will be delivered from the back of a mount which is still 'charging'.

... even if said mount has dropped prone after the charge.

-Hyp.

 

[Goblyn]

Then how do you rule the usual use of the Ready action against a charge?

Let's say someone charges towards me, where I have used the Ready action to prepare an attack with my longspear.

My readied action is triggered, and occurs just before the triggering action. The triggering action is the Charge action taken by my opponent, and just before that action, my opponent is still twenty feet away - too far for me to reach with my longspear.

Similarly, "I Ready an action to shoot anyone who opens the door". The triggering action is the Open Door action... and just before that action, the door is closed and my target has total cover against my shot.

The readied attack would resolve before the charge attack, I would think, not before the charge itself. It must be, since this is a maneuvre spelled out in the RAW. How would you do it? Resolve both charge+attack first? As an aside: If I interpret correctly, this in particular is an issue separate from what we were discussing before; this is now about the text under "readied action" ... it seems that text presents some logistical problems. Simulteneity would prolly be better, as in, trigger action begins first, but readied action is resolved first.

The lance will deal double damage on any AoOs provoked later that round, since the AoO will be delivered from the back of a mount which is still 'charging'.

... even if said mount has dropped prone after the charge.

-Hyp.

The mount isn't considered charging. The character is charging while mounted. If the mount has dropped prone, the character is no longer mounted when he takes his AoO. This last is under the description of Ride: soft fall on PHB80.

...Sorry if these continued page references are annoying, but I want to be sure I'm not just making stuff up ... and while I'm looking at the page, I might as well let everyone else know, too.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The readied attack would resolve before the charge attack, I would think, not before the charge itself.

The 'charge itself' incorporates the attack.

You don't charge, and then attack; rather, you charge, which means moving and attacking.

The attack does not follow the Charge action; the attack is part of the Charge action, as is the movement.

Simulteneity would prolly be better, as in, trigger action begins first, but readied action is resolved first.

Then it's no longer impossible to gain double damage on a character who charged earlier in the round and is still considered to be charging - his trigger action began first, but since he is considered to be charging for the entire round, he's still susceptible to double damage from a set spear, no?

The mount isn't considered charging. The character is charging while mounted.

Then the lance never deals double damage? The condition for the double damage is "when used from the back of a charging mount". If the mount is not considered to be charging, this cannot apply.

If the mount has dropped prone, the character is no longer mounted when he takes his AoO. This last is under the description of Ride: soft fall on PHB80.

That applies if you fall off the mount; if you feel that the mount falling as an example of when this might apply constitutes a ruling that any time a mount becomes prone, the rider falls off, then substitute kneeling for prone in the earlier question.

-Hyp.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, who is faster, Achilles or the turtle?

 

[irdeggman]

Well, who is faster, Achilles or the turtle?

I vote Gamera, my favorite "turtle".

 

[Goblyn]

The 'charge itself' incorporates the attack.

You don't charge, and then attack; rather, you charge, which means moving and attacking.

The attack does not follow the Charge action; the attack is part of the Charge action, as is the movement.



Then it's no longer impossible to gain double damage on a character who charged earlier in the round and is still considered to be charging - his trigger action began first, but since he is considered to be charging for the entire round, he's still susceptible to double damage from a set spear, no?

No, because setting a spear is under readying an action and I don't think you can ready an action for something that has already happened. Though he may be still considered charging, the charge mechanic has already been resolved, making it too late for anyone to ready for that action.


Then the lance never deals double damage? The condition for the double damage is "when used from the back of a charging mount". If the mount is not considered to be charging, this cannot apply.[/quote]

Under the entries for both charge and mounted combat, it words it as 'charging while mounted'. I would imagine that the mount, to be charging, would also take the double-move-then-attack, but if the rider is the only one attacking at the end of the move, he's charging while mounted.


That applies if you fall off the mount; if you feel that the mount falling as an example of when this might apply constitutes a ruling that any time a mount becomes prone, the rider falls off, then substitute kneeling for prone in the earlier question.

-Hyp.[/QUOTE]

Well, it's given as an example for when soft fall is needed, so yes.

For the mount kneeling? Well, given that the character is considered charging, and mounted, then yes.

I'm led to wonder now; what is the disconnect here? Does it stem simply from my interpretation or the letter v.s. the intent of the RAW?

How do you adjudicate charge?

 

[Hypersmurf]

How do you adjudicate charge?

Once the full-round action is over, before the end of your turn, you are no longer charging.

Just like the sorcerer's full-round Cast a Spell action completes within his turn, the fighter's full-round Full Attack action completes within his turn, the crossbowman's Load Heavy Crossbow action completes within his turn, and so forth.

The sorcerer can cast Empowered Magic Missile (full-round action), followed by Swift Invisibility (swift action), in the same turn... because he has finished his full-round action before his turn ends. He cannot cast Summon Monster III followed by Swift Invisibility in the same turn, because the casting of Summon Monster continues until the beginning of his next turn.

-Hyp.

 

[Goblyn]

Once the full-round action is over, before the end of your turn, you are no longer charging.

Just like the sorcerer's full-round Cast a Spell action completes within his turn, the fighter's full-round Full Attack action completes within his turn, the crossbowman's Load Heavy Crossbow action completes within his turn, and so forth.

The sorcerer can cast Empowered Magic Missile (full-round action), followed by Swift Invisibility (swift action), in the same turn... because he has finished his full-round action before his turn ends. He cannot cast Summon Monster III followed by Swift Invisibility in the same turn, because the casting of Summon Monster continues until the beginning of his next turn.

-Hyp.

I see. Actually, I've now a question about summon monster, but I'll start a new thread for it; this one's been jacked enough, I think.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Once the full-round action is over, before the end of your turn, you are no longer charging.

...

-Hyp.

Interesting. So the AC penalty only applies to AoO drawn for charging or if there is a readied action that interupts the charge?

We've always played it that you suffer the -2 AC until the start of your next action.

To the OP..

I'd rule it the same way as you did. I'd also disallow a Dex bonus despite Uncanny Dodge while balancing, assuming a failed check (another argument that could be make w/ Uncanny Dodge).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Interesting. So the AC penalty only applies to AoO drawn for charging or if there is a readied action that interupts the charge?

Not at all.

We've always played it that you suffer the -2 AC until the start of your next action.

Exactly.

If the Charge action stated "and a -2 penalty to AC while charging", it would only affect AoOs and Readied actions. It does not state that; it states "a -2 penalty to AC until the start of your next turn".

In much the same way that Blasphemy has an instantaneous duration, but can impose a Strength penalty for 2d4 rounds, Charge imposes a penalty that extends beyond its duration. The penalty affects you while you are charging, and also while you are not charging.

The Run action has no such text; the penalty only applies while you are running, not while you are not running.

-Hyp.