Ryan Dancey -- Hasbro Cannot Deauthorize OGL

I reached out to the architect of the original Open Gaming License, former VP of Wizard of the Coast, Ryan Dancey, and asked his opinion about the current plan by WotC to 'deauthorize' the current OGL in favour of a new one.

He responded as follows:

Yeah my public opinion is that Hasbro does not have the power to deauthorize a version of the OGL. If that had been a power that we wanted to reserve for Hasbro, we would have enumerated it in the license. I am on record numerous places in email and blogs and interviews saying that the license could never be revoked.

Ryan also maintains the Open Gaming Foundation.

As has been noted previously, even WotC in its own OGL FAQ did not believe at the time that the licence could be revoked.

7. Can't Wizards of the Coast change the License in a way that I wouldn't like?

Yes, it could. However, the License already defines what will happen to content that has been previously distributed using an earlier version, in Section 9. As a result, even if Wizards made a change you disagreed with, you could continue to use an earlier, acceptable version at your option. In other words, there's no reason for Wizards to ever make a change that the community of people using the Open Gaming License would object to, because the community would just ignore the change anyway.

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[Steel_Wind]

Not just that, so was WotC. It was still a privately owned gaming company owned by Peter Adkison. It was not the multibillion dollar juggernaut known as Hasbro.

OGL 1.0a was to keep D&D available as a game to the community forever. Even if WotC failed. So that what happened to TSR where the game nearly got parted out to dozens of different owners in bankruptcy court would instead always be there for the fans.

It was a privately owned gaming company owned by Peter Adkinson and Lisa Stevens, the owner and founder of Paizo Inc. -- and the single largest user of the OGL, by far.

[fixed that for you]

 

[Kinematics]

Are there any parts of Android (or whatnot) built on open source? Cheaper for Google (or whoever) to buy Hasbro than worth about it? How ugly good then running things...

Ah, go look up the Oracle vs Google lawsuit over Java APIs. It was a headache and a half, because if Oracle won it would have destroyed most software interoperability as we know it.

If Google thought Hasbro's actions threatened to create another such situation (suit filed for $8.8 billion, possible destruction of the entire Android ecosystem), I'm sure they'd buy Hasbro in a heartbeat and put it under a very heavy thumb.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Just as a cold matter of fact, that's not actually true. Paizo did well but someone had the actual figures a while back and they were not outselling 4E, contrary to the popular narrative. They were getting dangerously close at times.

I don't believe those numbers. And the only people who do? Are on ENWorld.

This is pro-D&D site to an unreasonable degree at times.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Just as a cold matter of fact, that's not actually true. Paizo did well but someone had the actual figures a while back and they were not outselling 4E, contrary to the popular narrative. They were getting dangerously close at times.

my understanding (and plenty argue over it) PF1e and D&D4e were very close with 4e beating it out until the last book came out. However PF got closer then anyone else ever did (but that means the only competition to D&D is other D&D)

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't believe those numbers. And the only people who do? Are on ENWorld.

This is pro-D&D site to an unreasonable degree at times.

LOL. Really bro?

You don't believe the numbers you haven't seen and we're all crazy biased except YOU. You, Steel_Wind, the One Sane Man in a sea of debauched and insane D&D Worshippers. Good thing you're here I guess to save us from our stupidity and wicked idolatry!

 

[kenada]

If Google thought Hasbro's actions threatened to create another such situation (suit filed for $8.8 billion, possible destruction of the entire Android ecosystem), I'm sure they'd buy Hasbro in a heartbeat and put it under a very heavy thumb.

It’s Google. If they bought Hasbro, they’d get bored of it and kill it a few years later. Or we’d find out My Little Pony is somehow now a messaging app.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I am 100% opposed from a hobby (and human) perspective, but I'm not at all sure it isn't a "good idea" from a business perspective. It really depends on their legal position. If they're really convinced their legal position is solid and that they can enforce it (practically speaking), I can definitely be persuaded that regaining control of their IP is in the company's best mid- to long-term interests.

But I think a more likely scenario is that their legal position is weak, they're trying to railroad publishers with a tight deadline, and it's going to blow up in their faces.

It isn't good from a business perpective, they going to get slammed with lawsuits, not small lawsuits, huge ones, because not only with the other TTRPG companies, but screwing their friends in Critical Role, which means this screws CR partner Amazon, Hasbro/WotC can't afford to piss off Amazon.

Remember this will effect Amazon's show Vex Machina as well.

There is also the possiblity that Hasbro could get nailed for anti competivity practices on this one because after convincing their competitors to use the OGL and become dependant on it, this would effectively put them all out of busineess.

I will add that this was actually supposed to be official released today, January 4th, and it wasn't which suggests WotC is having serious secend thoughts and someone released this document to tip the scales against it (which I suspect they suceeded). Heck the PR is so bad the OGL 1.1 might get scrapped entirely.

 

[Mecheon]

I don't believe those numbers. And the only people who do? Are on ENWorld.

I mean, while I do hate to out myself as a former Goon....

We kind of discussed this all of the time back on Something Awful as well. Pathfinder only started to outsell 4E at the absolute end of 4E's lifespan, once barely anything was coming out.

That D&D name recognition hard to get over

 

[darjr]

It was a privately owned gaming company owned by Peter Adkinson and Lisa Stevens, the owner and founder of Paizo Inc. -- and the single largest user of the OGL, by far.

[fixed that for you]

I dint think it was “owned” by Lisa Stevens. Not like Peter owned it. But I think she was as instrumental at WotC as anyone. Maybe more so.

 

[Steel_Wind]

LOL. Really bro?

You don't believe the numbers you haven't seen and we're all crazy biased except YOU. You, Steel_Wind, the One Sane Man in a sea of debauched and insane D&D Worshippers. Good thing you're here I guess to save us from our stupidity and wicked idolatry!

Oh FFS. HERE is what I know:

After 4e was announced - WotC bailed on GenCon;
After 4e, Pathfinder sales took off with a bullet. So did the message traffic here. It was the game that mattered here when D&D didn't. Or did you think that 1.2 million messages happened by accident?

After 4e - ICV2 rated PF consistently as number 1 for SEVERAL YEARS.

When I was the Paizo correspondent here on ENWorld? I was contacted by a store owner in 2011 that there was a LARGE amount of brand new 4e product being sold at liquidation prices by a distributor in both Ontario and New York. The reception to this news on ENWorld was as hostile as it ever got for me. D&D adherents were UPSET to hear this news about 4e.

[This is the same edition others now claim sold better than 3.x? DELUSIONAL. ]

A great selling game, the rebranded under the Essential line and then both version were sold at liquidation prices to retailers -- and then D&D abandoned the market for 2 years, ceding it to Paizo outright.

Even after 5e was released, it took about 18 months for 5e to get going and find its legs. It wasn't until 2016 that 5e was back in the pole position.

But sales were always great?

Put down that Kool-Aid.