Ryan Dancey -- Hasbro Cannot Deauthorize OGL

I reached out to the architect of the original Open Gaming License, former VP of Wizard of the Coast, Ryan Dancey, and asked his opinion about the current plan by WotC to 'deauthorize' the current OGL in favour of a new one.

He responded as follows:

Yeah my public opinion is that Hasbro does not have the power to deauthorize a version of the OGL. If that had been a power that we wanted to reserve for Hasbro, we would have enumerated it in the license. I am on record numerous places in email and blogs and interviews saying that the license could never be revoked.

Ryan also maintains the Open Gaming Foundation.

As has been noted previously, even WotC in its own OGL FAQ did not believe at the time that the licence could be revoked.

7. Can't Wizards of the Coast change the License in a way that I wouldn't like?

Yes, it could. However, the License already defines what will happen to content that has been previously distributed using an earlier version, in Section 9. As a result, even if Wizards made a change you disagreed with, you could continue to use an earlier, acceptable version at your option. In other words, there's no reason for Wizards to ever make a change that the community of people using the Open Gaming License would object to, because the community would just ignore the change anyway.

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[Umbran]

LOL. Really bro?

You don't believe the numbers you haven't seen and we're all crazy biased except YOU. You, Steel_Wind, the One Sane Man in a sea of debauched and insane D&D Worshippers. Good thing you're here I guess to save us from our stupidity and wicked idolatry!

Can we NOT MAKE THIS PERSONAL, please? Thanks.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Four people who would know

thank you. I appreciate this, I often lose these but I am going to try to save this

 

[Umbran]

per·pet·u·al
/pərˈpeCH(əw)əl/

As if quoting the dictionary ever convinces people?
As if a list of common-use definitions necessarily applies in the very specific realm of contract law?

 

[mamba]

Four people who would know

"4e did fine early in its life cycle" and "4e outsold PF" do not '4e outsold 3e" make

 

[Steel_Wind]

That'd be because that's an unknown. All I know is on Amazon, 4E outsold Pathfinder. Was Amazon an outlier? Could have been. Certainly a far off time to its modern dominance. But, well, with Paizo's numbers not really being known we can never know for sure

We know their employee numbers though -- and WotC's D&D employees, too. That tells you all you need to know.

At D&D's nadir, they were down to about 6 (SIX) full-time employees at WotC working on D&D. Paizo's full-time employees were at about 80. C'mon. You can't be sure? Really? Really? This is willful blindness now.

Those numbers have blossomed at WotC over the past 6 years though (and they have hired a lot of ex-Paizo people, too). Since 2017, WotC has hit it out of the frikkin park with 5e.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"4e outsold PF" do not '4e outsold 3e" make

wait... what?!?
D&D 4e outsold Pathfinder should be the end of this... but okay so again we have to just agree to disagree.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
Folks, the more you go down angry ratholes, the less relevant this thread becomes. Please don't.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

We know their employee numbers though -- and WotC's D&D employees, too. That tells you all you need to know.

At D&D's nadir, they were down to about 6 (SIX) full-time employees at WotC working on D&D. Paizo's full-time employees were at about 80. C'mon. You can't be sure? Really? Really? This is willful blindness now.

Those numbers have blossomed at WotC over the past 6 years though (and they have hired a lot of ex-Paizo people, too). Since 2017, WotC has hit it out of the frikkin park with 5e.

so when 4 people that worked for Piazo AND WotC tell you out right "4e out sold PF" how is this argument still going?

Spoiler: spoiler blocked because I just saw mod note

 

[SkidAce]

LOL. Really bro?

You don't believe the numbers you haven't seen and we're all crazy biased except YOU. You, Steel_Wind, the One Sane Man in a sea of debauched and insane D&D Worshippers. Good thing you're here I guess to save us from our stupidity and wicked idolatry!

mmmmmmm...sea of debauchery.....

 

[mamba]

wait... what?!?
D&D 4e outsold Pathfinder should be the end of this... but okay so again we have to just agree to disagree.

my initial reply was to

I mean, the claim it sold better than 3.x came from WotC, who I think might know how their products sold....

'it' being 4e, not sure what 4e > PF tells us about the relation of 3e to 4e

EDIT: I stop here because of mod note