Ryan Dancey -- Hasbro Cannot Deauthorize OGL

I reached out to the architect of the original Open Gaming License, former VP of Wizard of the Coast, Ryan Dancey, and asked his opinion about the current plan by WotC to 'deauthorize' the current OGL in favour of a new one.

He responded as follows:

Yeah my public opinion is that Hasbro does not have the power to deauthorize a version of the OGL. If that had been a power that we wanted to reserve for Hasbro, we would have enumerated it in the license. I am on record numerous places in email and blogs and interviews saying that the license could never be revoked.

Ryan also maintains the Open Gaming Foundation.

As has been noted previously, even WotC in its own OGL FAQ did not believe at the time that the licence could be revoked.

7. Can't Wizards of the Coast change the License in a way that I wouldn't like?

Yes, it could. However, the License already defines what will happen to content that has been previously distributed using an earlier version, in Section 9. As a result, even if Wizards made a change you disagreed with, you could continue to use an earlier, acceptable version at your option. In other words, there's no reason for Wizards to ever make a change that the community of people using the Open Gaming License would object to, because the community would just ignore the change anyway.

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[eyeheartawk]

... can't we get back to something less contentious like, I don't know, edition wars?

I'm a edition war Anarchist.

I choose chess.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:

Folks, this thread is not titled "The Nature of Capitalism". So how about that line of discussion dies, and you get back on topic, please? Thanks.

 

[Greg Benage]

Pure evil.

OOPS: Ninja'd by moderation. Sorry!

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Redacted due to red text

 

[Ondath]

Any chance the upcoming WotC announcement might actually spill the beans on whether OGL v1.0a will actually be deauthorised or not?

I'm not betting on it, but I do get the feeling that they felt like they had to say something after Kobold Press raised the black flag (in multiple senses of the word), so hopefully some emergency course correction is happening within the firm.

 

[Maxperson]

Edited: didn't see mod note.

 

[Maxperson]

... can't we get back to something less contentious like, I don't know, edition wars?

Fair enough. I'll stop now.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Any chance the upcoming WotC announcement might actually spill the beans on whether OGL v1.0a will actually be deauthorised or not?

I think it has to.

If it doesn't spell that out, almost everyone, including some people who previously thought it was opt-in, not general deauthorization, will think it's general deauthorization. There's no earthly reason not to spell that out given it's clearly the focus of the most intense anger.

Really you kind of have to think that, too, because the only other possibility is such profound ineptitude that it literally defies belief.

 

[RyanD]

Out of just curiosity, do you remember what the feel was they gave off at the time? Were people skeptical of this (very different for 2000) idea? Were they all immediately excited, or were any apprehensive?

Part of the challenge was convincing publishers this was not a “trap”. Many people saw a conspiracy to kill all the competition and steal their ideas. It took courage on the part of some high profile publishers to take the risk and lead the way - Green Ronin, Atlas, and White Wolf with Necromancer among others.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Part of the challenge was convincing publishers this was not a “trap”. Many people saw a conspiracy to kill all the competition and steal their ideas. Ot took courage on the part of some high profile publishers to take the risk and lead the way - Green Ronin, Atlas, and White Wolf with Necromancer among others.

I remember the discussions around this!

I even remember on WW fansite (or possibly the main WW forums), there being accusations that WW were "traitors" for engaging with WotC's licence. It wasn't a majority opinion, but it was a common one. Of course Scarred Lands was so good a lot of people changed their minds and acted like they'd never said it later.

 

[wingsandsword]

I can't help but feel they could have pursued profit/growth without being quite the titanic pricks they're being now.

They COULD. . .but being less of a jerk wasn't a factor in the decision making. This was absolute raw profit-driven, the idea that they think they'll make more money this way, at least in the short term (because corporate America hates long-term thinking).

 

[Knuffeldraak]

It really looks like you're intentionally missing the point.

If so, please don't do that. It lowers the tone of an already-fraught discussion.

The issue isn't 30 days, for god's sake, as should be absolutely obvious. The issue is that they reserve the right to completely change the terms of OGL 1.1 at any time.

Which is absolutely not normal, standard, reasonable or the like, when it's a document a business would be relying in order to keep doing business. They also threaten that if you take them to court, they'll automatically terminate you (probably wouldn't fly in the UK/EU, but I don't know about the US), so even if they gave you 30 days notice there'd be absolutely nothing you could do about it. No business can function if they rely on terms that could be changed to literally anything at any time, with no recourse.

Just because I didn't comment on one part of the post doesn't mean I missed it, let alone intentionally. I agree that it is important, sure, but heading off that remark/reminder with an instant jump to accusations is just uncalled for and completely unnecessarily provocative.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Just because I didn't comment on one part of the post doesn't mean I missed it, let alone intentionally. I agree that it is important, sure, but heading off that remark/reminder with an instant jump to accusations is just uncalled for and completely unnecessarily provocative.

It's the focus of that part of the issue we're discussing lol.

 

[Knuffeldraak]

It's the focus of that part of the issue we're discussing lol.

Completely unrelated at this point. I simply and politely ask you not to jump the gun to me like that. Do you understand me?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Completely unrelated at this point. I simply and politely ask you not to jump the gun to me like that. Do you understand me?

I get that you're new here, but I think you need to loosen up a little bud if you're going to make a career out of this.

 

[Knuffeldraak]

I get that you're new here, but I think you need to loosen up a little bud if you're going to make a career out of this.

It doesn't matter. I'm just asking you to not jump the gun pointing fingers about purposely ignoring something when I wasn't even replying to the something you say I ignored. Accusing someone out of the blue is simply rude, and I'm not sure why politely and calmly explaining my boundaries takes 3 posts for you still not understand.

 

[Alzrius]

In this case, potation is to transfer something into a different format. For example, transfer a text document to HTML for a website.

I'm pretty sure that's "portation."

 

[Alzrius]

Part of the challenge was convincing publishers this was not a “trap”. Many people saw a conspiracy to kill all the competition and steal their ideas. It took courage on the part of some high profile publishers to take the risk and lead the way - Green Ronin, Atlas, and White Wolf with Necromancer among others.

I'm actually seeing people dredge up this theory on other venues; apparently, WotC's twenty-plus-year trap has finally been sprung.

 

[Nylanfs]

Somebody dug up this gem.

The Most Dangerous Column in Gaming - Open Gaming Interview With Ryan Dancey

Wizards of the Coast - The Most Dangerous Column in Gaming - Open Gaming Interview With Ryan Dancey

web.archive.org

 

[Greg Benage]

Somebody dug up this gem.

3. Create a genre-specific game (say, a Wild West or Gothic Horror game) that was based on the D20 System game.

Yes, but you'd have to deal with the fact that people will have to buy a fantasy-themed D&D player's handbook in order to get all the character creation and development material. This may or may not prove to be a problem. I'm hoping that it is not. I'd love to see you sell my PHBs to your Wild West customers!

Hmm...