Ryan Dancey on Redefining the Hobby (Updated: time elements in a storytelling game)

[Glyfair]

New post in the series is up - Step 2: Redefine the Experience

Selected quotes:

Across more than 30 years of time, the template established by the earliest D&D releases has dominated the tabletop roleplaying game format. That template is:

1. A set of rules which seek to describe in detail how characters interact with the environment of the game.

2. A Game Master who is responsible for the actions of all non-player characters, adjudication of the rules, narration and description of the environment.

3. A group of players who are challenged by the Game Master to use the rules as an interface to describe the actions of their characters as they attempt to overcome the challenges present in the game scenario.

That format is a big part of the problem. It reinforces a strong division between “players” and “storytellers”. The players are usually given control only over their own characters, and even that control is strictly limited by the interface of the rules.

In addition, a disproportionate burden is placed on the Game Master, who is called on not only to write a great story framework for the game, but be responsible for the actions of a diverse cast of characters, be well versed in a much larger ruleset than that required of the players, and often be called on to organize, and host, the gaming group as well.

This means that one person shares a much greater burden than the others, which limits the number of people who will take on that burden, which in turn limits the diversity of the game groups available, and creates restricted paths in the social network of gamers.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Mmm... sacred hamburger.

My own research into the mechanics of spells leads me to believe that 75-90% of the spells could be condensed into one or two dozen spell templates.

The Evocation school alone is little more than (energy type)+(ray or AoE)+(maximum caster level).

But you have to slaughter an awful lot of sacred cows to get there...

Reserve Feats and and the Warlock class are halfway there anyway. IMHO, spells--as in ritualistic, formulaic, component-needing, PHB style spells--should be magic items (scrolls) or prestige class abilities. Point being: not in the PHB.

Limit the "magic user" class/role in the PHB to something purely mechanical, like what we see with the Warlock, and you'd cut way, way down on the user unfriendliness of D&D in general, and the PHB in particular.

-z

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Interesting.

Ryan's thoughts on GMless or GM-lite play exactly mirror my own - that it is A, if not THE, potential future for the hobby. In particular, the idea of reducing the GM's workload to considerably below AD&D levels (to say nothing of d20 levels) gels with where I see successful roleplaying games going.

Mind, I don't necessarily agree with Ryan's method for getting there, or even with his Story emphasis. I think board games are at least as good a model to pursue, especially in light of their recent resurgence.

Then you have his usual open source advocacy, which is probably correct from a game design standpoint but seems, in this case, to almost completely ignore the commercial aspect in a way the indie-est RPG does not today.

I find this one a lot more interesting and insightful than its predecessor, in any case.

 

[Virel]

I've ran AD&D with co-DM's before the additional input was a good thing. However, the idea of having say seven people doing game by committe probably isn't going to work quiet as well as he makes it sound for most people.

Seven DM/Players is sort of like having seven cooks making the soup, instead of soup, you'll usually end up with slop.

Anyway, you slice it the end result is it comes down to a DMing issue. Spread the work load of the DM out etc.

Whatever, the NexGen games are the DM's work load needs to be no more than the AD&D level. Less would be better.

 

[Glyfair]

Mind, I don't necessarily agree with Ryan's method for getting there, or even with his Story emphasis.

I'm not sure how much of this is "this is the right way" and how much is "we need to find a new way, and here is a direction to consider."

I think board games are at least as good a model to pursue, especially in light of their recent resurgence.

But that goes back to trying to emulate something in their strength, as his discusses with MMORPGs. If I want to play a board game, why would I play something like a board game but not a board game? Sure there will be those looking the sweet spot that RPGs will take up, but they will be the rarity.

I believe Ryan does have a point in that RPGs will survive because of what they do that's different from the other options. These differences should be developed and focused on, at some level.

 

[MerricB]

Speaking as a player of boardgames, they're *not* the route that D&D needs to go down. All the attempts at moving the D&D experience to the more structured form of the boardgame (Talisman, Runebound, Descent, WoW:tbg) are terrible at even coming close to anything resembling a RPG. Not just that their gameplay is inferior, but that it counts out the vital part of the RPG: the imagination.

Boardgames might provide a jumping in point for some aspects of RPGs (mainly the tactical), but no more.

Cheers!

 

[mearls]

I posted to Ryan's blog, but I might as well post here.

I don't think the solution to the problem of "DMing is too hard" is necessarily "Distribute the work amongst the entire group."

A more elegant solution might be, "Make it less work to DM."

There's no magic, minimum burden of work required to run an RPG. One of the long-term goals of RPG development is to make DMing less work, more fun.

I think Ryan has some interesting ideas. Regardless of where this is heading, I'm sure the end result will be worth watching. It's about time that someone in this hobby started shaking things up.

 

[Kaodi]

Olgar, your post has shown me the way. As a community, we do not need to try and bring hundreds of thousands of fresh faces into the fold, we only need to indoctrinate two.

Kirby and William King lead to Gayle King, Gayle King leads to Oprah Winfrey and Oprah Winfrey leads to the World.

Hahahaha, hahahahahahahaha, muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[mearls]

Speaking as a player of boardgames, they're *not* the route that D&D needs to go down. All the attempts at moving the D&D experience to the more structured form of the boardgame (Talisman, Runebound, Descent, WoW:tbg) are terrible at even coming close to anything resembling a RPG. Not just that their gameplay is inferior, but that it counts out the vital part of the RPG: the imagination.

Boardgames might provide a jumping in point for some aspects of RPGs (mainly the tactical), but no more.

D&D doesn't need to become more like other games.

D&D needs to become more like D&D.

Up thread, someone talked about getting people into AD&D even though they pester him to run 3e. I think there's something inherently fun, interesting, and humanizing to RPGs that makes them appealing across rule sets. R&D works to make the game more fun, easier to learn, and more interesting, but RPGs at their root present a basic sort of experience you can't find anywhere else. Only a really, really bad RPG design could eliminate it.

 

[buzz]

However, I'll wager the percentage of gamers going to GenCon is smaller than the percentage of the market that non D&D/WW RPGs hold.

Well, obviously.

I meant more that I don't think the people who attend GenCon are some special breed of gamer. I don't think the increased indie presence there (and many other cons) is something to be casually dismissed. Otherwise, you could dismiss anyone's presence there. E.g., that ENWorld grew to point that they now have a booth. This stuff matters.