Ryan Dancey on Redefining the Hobby (Updated: time elements in a storytelling game)

[RyanD]

It's rather late as I'm reading this so I might be missing something, but how is the concept of rules being fed back into the community connected to the concept of distributed DM-ing?

My basic prescription for emphasizing the differences between MMORPGs and "Storytelling Games" is:

1. A truly persistent environment, where participant actions shape and redefine the game world in lasting and meaningful ways using the power of emergence.

2. Participant created content which expands the game world, sorted & made accessible through the power of a reputation economy.

3. The ability to interact with one another in various social network configurations, from very small (2 people) to very large (10,000+ gatherings), from “party” focused adventures to city, national, and world sized population systems.

#1 leads to breaking up the GM/Player duality (all participant actions should shape and redefine the game world, not just one persons (the GM) actions.

#2 links to the concept of distributed design & development, with feedback into the community resource pool

Ryan

 

[buzz]

I'll argue that the typical GenCon attendee is more of a "committed gamer" than the typical gamer. Eliminate the locals who go because it is nearby and you probably have almost all committed gamers (and those traveling with committed gamers).

That crowd is the sort that is more likely to appreciate the indie-RPG table. In fact, many of them would probably be satisfied finding a game that has a gem buried in a horrible impenetrable system. Not that there isn't quality out there, just that search is often the reason they get explored.

One wonders then why any company even bothers to show up at GenCon.

 

[HeinorNY]

RyanD
Considering all these changes that you are talking about, what about all the D&D gamers that really don't care about the story, those that care only about monster bashing, getting gold and magic items, creating powerful characters, etc. I think there is a considering amount of people that plays the game for that kind of fun.
What will be left for them? Go play WoW?

What about those DMs that enjoy all the work, all the tons of rules, all the trouble and all the responsability of the game, all the power!
What will be left for them?

 

[HinterWelt]

_This_ is why I keep saying the RPG industry is not dying a death. I feel like a voice in the wilderness at times but, from where we are sitting, things are perky!

You aren't alone Matt...it just feels like it.

If it is not clear, I hold your same views.

Bill

 

[Arksorn]

Instead of "storytelling game" I suggest "adventure game." That sounds cooler and covers more groups...those that like to tell stories about adventures and those that like to smash things on adventures. Everyone likes adventures, except Hobbits.

Plus it is easier to explain to new players. "An adventure game is like playing through the Indian Jones movies, or LoTR, or any number of other popular movies. It is better than computer games that try to do the same thing because there are no software limitations."

Also, the idea that the tactical powergamer would like WoW is, at least in my case, wrong. I do not get much enjoyment out of the "tactics" of clicking on monsters till they are dead. I much prefer the battlemat where I can manuever and employ actual tactics.

No offense to WoW players, I greatly enjoy that game as well, I just don't think there are much tactics involved (although I have not played much past 10th level).

 

[Glyfair]

One wonders then why any company even bothers to show up at GenCon.

Buzz. You get your products to the "committed gamers" and they spread the word through the gamer grapevine.

Indy games do get the buzz, but a significant segment of the people hearing it aren't interested.

Instead of "storytelling game" I suggest "adventure game." That sounds cooler and covers more groups...those that like to tell stories about adventures and those that like to smash things on adventures. Everyone likes adventures, except Hobbits.

I like it, but I think that term has been associated with computer games long before the MMORPGs began to take hold (not that early versions didn't start appearing soon after).

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Also, the idea that the tactical powergamer would like WoW is, at least in my case, wrong. I do not get much enjoyment out of the "tactics" of clicking on monsters till they are dead. I much prefer the battlemat where I can manuever and employ actual tactics.

No offense to WoW players, I greatly enjoy that game as well, I just don't think there are much tactics involved (although I have not played much past 10th level).

As a player of both WoW and D&D, I have to step in here.

WoW DOES have tactics and a tactical gameplay that gets involved. Mainly it comes into play once you get into the end game stuff and organizing 10-25 people on complicated boss fights. Its not the same KIND of tactical fights that D&D is, but there are definitely tactics and more than just 'click and kill' involved. Especially when one person messing up just slightly for a number of reasons can cause everyone to die right then and there.

Not to say D&D should share this kind of thing. As has been said by others, D&D and video games(MMORPGs or more traditional RPGs) should evolve their own ways. If something works for both, awesome. But don't try to force them upon one another because there are a great many things about both that just plain won't work.

...course, I think the Power Gaming types in video games would LOVE the options and such in D&D if they knew just how much they could do.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

No offense to WoW players, I greatly enjoy that game as well, I just don't think there are much tactics involved (although I have not played much past 10th level).

No offense, but since you've gotten to level 10, you haven't really seen anything of the game yet. There are plenty of tactics involved, whether soloing, grouping or raiding.

I'll put Onyxia up alongside a typical D&D dragon any day of the week -- they're quite comparable, unless the DM spends a LOT of energy coming up with the most involved dragon fight ever. (And even then, Onyxia's fight is pretty complex.) And she's really just the tip of the iceberg.

Heck, you don't even need to raid to see this stuff. Just get high enough to go into the Deadmines for involved, interesting fights.

 

[WayneLigon]

Our group is eight 30-something guys, almost all married, engaged, or partnered up; no kids. Various outside interests, a lot of sports, a lot of drinkin'. Typical guys.

Mostly my group, save that two have kids. One person's kid and her boyfriend play with us.

I don't think there are a lot of video gamers amongst them, so I have no idea how successful an MMO would be at pulling any of them away from my group.

Mostly my group. I'm the only one of them that has played an MMO or even really much in the way of computer games.

Nobody-- nobody-- is here to tell a story. A good story that arises from one of our game sessions is a fortunate circumstance, at best, but certainly not the motivation for playing.

Totally not my group. Story and interaction are the only reasons we're at that table every single week.

 

[WayneLigon]

I would say that the use of 'Storytelling Game' is a terrible, terrible idea. The term is very loaded among a lot of gamers, who will refuse to look at anything to do with 'storytelling' sight unseen because of the horrific implementations that were tried by people that had no real understanding of the term or what it meant.