Sandbox style: How to handle challenge levels

[RFisher]

For sentient beings I use the natural social to organize my levels. A dungeon is low level because it is a guard outpost in a cavern with only regular warriors, sergeants and maybe a captain. A high level dungeon is high level because it is the primary seat of the Great Evil Lord Divolic.

For animals/monster I use a basic ecology layout where the top predators are fewer in number and more scattered than their prey. And each regions has a unique mix of creatures from low to high CR.

This is pretty much exactly the type of thing I've been trying to describe.

 

[Raven Crowking]

In sandbox play - as opposed to a cop-out/hybrid where the severity of challenges is scaled to the party - the responsibility for managing threats rests on the shoulders of the players, who have to make choices whether to explore a certain hazardous area, range far from civilisation centres or not, etcetera. Collecting information becomes very valuable. Rumors, and listening to them, is very important; augury and more advanced divination spells become better lifesavers than fireball (no exagerration - PCs in my campaigns have been saved more times by the first than the second) and of course, sacrificing to deities or consulting sages for their advice is a prime way loot is spent. This is, in many ways, outside the currently fashionable D&D paradigm. It is often the experienced players with set-in playing procedures, who are less successful in it, and newbies who adapt more quickly (while certain old hands are immediately "at home", and fare very, very well - that's the mythical "player skill" in action ).

I endorse this post whole-heartedly.

And, Doug, welcome to the ranks of sandbox DMs. I hope your game goes well for all participants!

RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

I kind of hate it. In particular, I never see it used any way other than "all the hobgoblins in the world gained levels to match the PCs" and "something like that every single time". i.e., any time I see it does in fact look hokey and cheap.

Having elite humanoid troops always show up of exactly the same level as the PCs strikes me, as you say, as cheesy and cheap and gives me a sour taste when playing D&D. What I'd prefer is to sit down at game start and specify who and where the toughest "elite band" of orcs is, make sure there are legends and tales of exactly who they are, and not surprise the players with previously-unheard of bands of goblin superheroes just because it's mechanically easy for the DM to use them.

Exactly. Unless there is a reason for it to be different.

I also place some Epic monsters right from the get-go, which may or may not become important later, but which can certainly be learned about when the PCs begin. These monsters don't have to be out to spread darkness over all the lands, but it should be known where some of them lair, so as to make it not such a shock when these creatures are discovered to exist later.

An easy example is the Stone Colossus that stands in the harbour of Baal Imaris. Each morning it speaks one word as the sun touches the eastern horizon: Om. Each evening it speaks one word as the sun dips into the west: Mu. What these words mean, no one knows, and some think the Colossus is counting down the days until the End of Days.

Not only does the Stone Colossus provide a mystery that low-level PCs cannot solve (but mid-level ones may), it is a planted Epic monster that may one day be used. Moreover, it can be used in backdrop (destroys ship in harbour then returns to its normal routine) to build up a sense that things are changing with it, or as part of another adventure (if the PCs must search that ship before it is destroyed, for example).

RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

There are a lot of fine comments in this thread. Excellent advice!

Yes, and yours was one of them!

 

[Raven Crowking]

Okay, but even with the dragon example, how do our PCs have a barometer on when they're tough enough?

Among other things, divination spells.

Let me also add that if the dragon is regularly paid tribute by the Holy Terrors You Cannot Face, then the odds are good that you cannot face the dragon either. OTOH, if the Troll Lord lives on Dragon Mountain, and the dragon seems to give him a wide berth, you can judge the dragon's toughness by what you know of the Troll Lord.

And, of course, you should always plan a retreat.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Start by telling them the nature of the world. That there are places they can go that will be not only dangerous, but almost instantly deadly for them but that you will try and warn them ahead of time in game.

Clear definitions of the world around them help. For example: "Those are the Dragon Spike Mountains. For the last 100 years a huge red dragon has been seen coming and going from the peaks. During that time other draconic creatures have been seen. No one sets foot within 100 miles of that peak and returns." Information that every farmer and inn keeper in the area would know and should indicate to players that its not safe to venture there until at least the teens - if not later.

In other words, all that "wasted" worldbuilding? In a sandbox, it is not only not wasted, it is necessary to give players the clues they need to survive.

RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

This is pretty much exactly the type of thing I've been trying to describe.

I understood it.

Man, this thread is really recharging the old DM batteries....!

 

[green slime]

You also need to make it clear when you use terms that are defined in the game, and when you are just using colourful language.

Querysome player: "A 'Huge Red Dragon'? Is that really DnD 3.5 Size 'Huge' or does he mean just 'really, really Big'?".

Farmer Bob: "It was frik'kin AWESOME, man! It's shadow covered that entire paddock over there!"

*sudden silence, followed by the rapid packing of belongings.*

*Then, the sound of cocnuts being struck together recedes into the distance.*

Bard Cohort: "Brave, Brave, Sir Robin, ..."

 

[Awakened]

This thread is awesome.
Just sayin'.

 

[Christian]

"Hey Bob"

"Yes?"

"What are we going to do with 50 kobolds?"

Trap detectors!