Sandstorm: sand shaper spells known

[jasin]

The Desert Insight class feature says the character gains "knowledge of
additional spells [...] If you are a spontaneous caster (such as a
sorcerer), these spells are available to you like any other spell you
know."

It then proceeds to list some 40 spells over 9 levels, including stuff
like bull's strength, cat's grace and bear's endurance as 1st-level
spells!

OK, you do miss out on a spellcasting level when you enter the class,
and another one at 9th level, but isn't this a bit too much for a
sorcerer?

The description even mentions that wizards enter the class more often
than sorcerers because sorcerers have to buy cross-class knowledge
(nature) ranks. For some 40-ish new spells known, I don't think it's
that much of a cost!

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Doesn't it mean that those spells are added to your class list, rather than added to your spells known?

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

That's how I interpreted it, too.

 

[Silveras]

Doesn't it mean that those spells are added to your class list, rather than added to your spells known?

That may well be what was intended, but it is not what the book says. "Known" is a very specific game term when it comes to spontaneous casters, and that is the term used. By a strict reading, Jasin is correct.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

That may well be what was intended, but it is not what the book says.

That's why the game has DMs.

 

[jasin]

That may well be what was intended, but it is not what the book says.

ISTM that what it says is what was intended (whether that was a good idea is a different matter...). The paragraph talks about wizards preparing those spells and such, which leads me to believe that the writer intended the class feature to expand spell knowledge, not the spell list.

A more practical question, now, for people who have played or DM-ed sand shapers: what did you do about Desert Insight? Add spells to spell list? Add spells to spellbook/spells known? Something else?

And for those that think that it should clearly be something other than "add to spells known": are you sure it is really so unbalancing? The spells are cool and sandstorm-y but aren't much (if at all...) better than Sor/Wiz spells, and the sand shaper does lose two spellcasting levels, after all (one right at the start). I can't think of many benefits that would make that kind of setback worth it for a sorcerer... but a bunch of neat spells just might be one of them.

 

[Silveras]

ISTM that what it says is what was intended (whether that was a good idea is a different matter...). The paragraph talks about wizards preparing those spells and such, which leads me to believe that the writer intended the class feature to expand spell knowledge, not the spell list.

A more practical question, now, for people who have played or DM-ed sand shapers: what did you do about Desert Insight? Add spells to spell list? Add spells to spellbook/spells known? Something else?

And for those that think that it should clearly be something other than "add to spells known": are you sure it is really so unbalancing? The spells are cool and sandstorm-y but aren't much (if at all...) better than Sor/Wiz spells, and the sand shaper does lose two spellcasting levels, after all (one right at the start). I can't think of many benefits that would make that kind of setback worth it for a sorcerer... but a bunch of neat spells just might be one of them.

Looking at the list more closely, I disagree. Several of the spells are already Sorcerer/Wizard spells, but not Bard spells. Some are granted earlier than normal (Bear's Endurance is a 2nd level Sorcerer/Wizard spell normally, but 1st level to a Sand Shaper). Others are normally Druid spells (Summon Desert Ally I-IX).

I think the intention was to add them to the available spells that the Sand Shaper *could* learn, but the wording (by a strict reading) makes them immediately available to Bards and Sorcerers because "Spells Known" has a specific meaning for them.

The Sand Shaper gets other cool benefits too... a spell-like ability at almost every level, in fact. For that matter, the desert insight ability is gained at 1st Sand Shaper level. You never have to take another level in the class to continue gaining that benefit.

Yes, considering that, I think as written the ability would be unbalancing. Making the spells available to be chosen seems more appropriate to me.