Savage Species- is there something wrong with me!?

[Tonguez]

Re: Re: Re: Savage Species- is there something wrong with me!?

Oddly enough, there are no rules or suggestions for reincarnated characters or awakened animals. The authors feel that animals are not "suitable" for PCs.... a very strange opinion, given everything else in the book.

Not suitable? Not suitable!

Well my Awakened Dire Elephant Barbarian 3 Scorcerer 3 Bard 6 (Perform:Subsonics), Psychic Warrior 5 does not agree


and neither does my dolphin ranger

 

[JPL]

The only problem I run into is with the suspension of disbelief regarding rapid growth.

I mean, a first-level Stone Giant is...Medium-sized? But a few years later, he's fifteen feet tall.

It works fine with characters who only grow to Large size...you can assume that they start right on the top edge of Medium and keep growing. And elementals and such are fine, because who knows what the elemental growth cycle is supposed to be?

But giants who start at seven feet tall? That's weird.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

The only problem I run into is with the suspension of disbelief regarding rapid growth.

That crossed my mind as well, but since I don't use the suggest xp system- our games don't level rapidly. It would be a bit silly if the dm use the suggest CR xp system and had adventures come on after the other.

Oh well, but perhaps some monsters grow up quicker then others. It is a harsh world after all.

SD

 

[Trepelano]

Was there a poll I missed?

It seems to me that from a lot of the postings in this topic- that you would be wrong.

SD

Didn't you know that 78% of all statistics are just made up on the spot?

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Didn't you know that 78% of all statistics are just made up on the spot?

Oh, come on- only one in five people would believe something like that.

SD

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Re: Re: Savage Species- is there something wrong with me!?

Useful for munchkins? Have you seen most of the ECL's suggested? Any munchkin worth his salt is not going to waste their time on it.

I was really hoping for some way to ballance spell casting classes w/ high ecl monsters with inate spell casting abilities. They recomend spell casters as good classes for feys and such, which WOULD make sense except that you get totally screwed by the level loss... a good fighting monster that multiclasses into fighter just keeps getting better, but a spell casting monster that multiclasses into spellcaster starts from scratch and can't apply spell caster levels to innate abilities... suckage. Definately not munchkin.

The monster classes could be abused if a person could multiclass with them before finishing them up, but they can't. So- it is not a problem.

I will likely houserule exceptions to this, especially for fast advancing games, slow maturing creatures or combinations thereof. So a 'sapling' treant might level up as a treant once a year game time, and take druid levels in between.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Mercule]

Read the book cover to cover. Don't just flip through it. You obviously missed the part about making monster classes which is pretty easy for most of the standard races. Look at page 12. Table 2-2. Look at page 16, Table 2-3. Then read 25 - 28 and apply those techniques to the races you want classes for.

I didn't find anything in the book overpowered at all. Quite well balanced, actually.

The reason I'm holding off on buying it is the monster classes. This has to be one of the lamest (albeit well balanced) ideas I've ever seen.

An adult minotaur (or troll, or whatever) has certain basic statistics that form its baseline, just like an elf, dwarf, human, whatever. To say that it becomes size large, or gains its natural armor later is very much akin to saying the elf needs to adventure for a while before getting its dex bonus, low-light vision, or resistance to certain magics. It just doesn't make sense.

I could see it, to an extent, it the character in question was a younger monster (baby trolls?), but reducing the aging to a class is a bit like asking "How much XP does it take for a dragon to advance age categories?" The answer is: none, it's dependant upon the age of the dragon.

I do not dispute that the monster classes are well balanced. They are. They are balanced in the same manner as a video-game would be, though. No thought to role-play or pseudo-realism, just good ol' statistical analisys. I don't think any of the monster classes would be usable for more than two levels (and many less than that) except for the most hack/slash groups (which is a fine playing style, just not one that I subscribe to).

Level draining could be an interesting discussion for monster-classes, too, but probably an entirely different topic. ("Well, I _was_ 8' tall and had a 10' reach until the wight touched me. Now I'm smaller.")

Anyway, that's been my reaction so far. If someone can tell me why monster classes make sense, other than game balance, I'm all ears. I really want to like the book, the concept just seems so bad to me.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Re: Re: Re: Savage Species- is there something wrong with me!?

I will likely houserule exceptions to this, especially for fast advancing games, slow maturing creatures or combinations thereof. So a 'sapling' treant might level up as a treant once a year game time, and take druid levels in between.

I am considering something similar, but for a different reason. While I will be doing slow advancement, there are no natural monsters in my world. Only races/individuals that have been twisted by the Saints (godlike beings walking the planet).

I plan there to be options to be twisted- and have control of how far they want to be twisted.

I still need to work out the details in my head, but I think it will be an exciting development.

SD

 

[Vrylakos]

I already have their half-ogre in PCGen (and we already have a player playing one... and I have no problem with that.)

Sorry to do a quasi-hijack, but does PCGEN allow for monstrous PCs easily? How do you like PCGen in general, Psion? Could you maybe do a review of it (perhaps after the Codemonkey agreement has gone through).

Vrylakos

 

[Sagan Darkside]

If someone can tell me why monster classes make sense, other than game balance, I'm all ears

I can only tell you my reasoning- adult elves, humans, etc are the baseline. Any weaker then that is not in the construction of the playable races in d&d.

The monsters are not born with the full hd of their type. They have to growup. I can see the levels as being the creature going through puberty (of sorts) to reach the adult baseline.

Why do this instead of using time? Well, time is a poor mechanic- and one that could lead to ugly situations.

You could argue- "If my first level illithid sat around for 10 years, then I am still in puberty? But if I went adventuring, then I would age?"

I would argue- no, you would still level while sitting around, the same way a pc would probably gain levels during that time (even if just npc levels).

The level/age idea does give me pause- as I addressed in another post, but considering the mechanics of D&D- I think this works fine.

SD