Savage Species- is there something wrong with me!?

[Psion]

Sorry to do a quasi-hijack, but does PCGEN allow for monstrous PCs easily? How do you like PCGen in general, Psion? Could you maybe do a review of it (perhaps after the Codemonkey agreement has gone through).

I like and use PCGen. I find complaints about the interface overblown; I don't find CS any better and find e-tools much worse. I really hope they get their IP problems and new data sets squared away post-haste, as I really don't have time to code in everything new I want to include. (But it is cool that I can!)

As for a review - not likely in the near future. My current review policy is that printed products come first, and I have quite a backlog, and now that I am an ennies judge again, it is only likely to get worse. I simply do not think it is fair that someone who can give me a download for the cost of bandwidth should have as high a priority as those who spend money to ship me a printed copy. This policy has aggravated some electronic product companies, but I can't please all the people all the time.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Welp, I love the thing!

I run fairly lient campaigns, and I'm VERY glad they gave me the rules and suggestions for having PC's use their imaginations in wierd ways.

My only stipulation: "Play whatever you want, give 'em a history, and a reason for doing this, and I'm happy."

After all, who am I to say that the air elemental is a bad choice for a PC? A million and one valid and good reasons could exist for an air elemental.

In addition, the more complex things will require more explanation. A hobgoblin is easy to make. A drider is more difficult. And an intelligent ooze is near-impossible, without some solid advice on how to do it.

In many ways, I'm a bit dissapointed they only pushed the envelope so far...constructs, undead, oozes, animals...sure, these might not fit into average campaigns so easily, but who plays a boring ol' average campaign.

The monster growth thing I've explained with a bit of fantasy biology: the monsters evolve as they fight.

In the same way that a raiding herd of orcs is likely to meet the best examples of the sentient races (adventurers, with levels of diverse skills), adventurers are likely to meet the best examples of the monsters (those fully advanced in HD). When born, the creature's aren't up to full strength, full power...they have to grow and evolve. In a normal world, it takes generations, eons, for a creature to turn into something else. In D&D, it takes only a few days of goblin-slaying. It tests you. It makes you grow.

A monster evolves physically through experience in the same way that a PC evolves in skills through experience -- PC's just don't have it manifest as clearly as monsters. Their type of being doesn't physically change, reaches it's full form fairly fast. Monsters, on the other hand, aren't born or even fully mature at full power. They have a latent ability to move up the chain of being without having to have offspring.

It's kinda like...the first Titan was Medium-sized, and only through going through tests can the body be honed into the full Titan potential.

The first human was a commoner. Only through tests can their intellect be honed to full human potential -- the power of a fighter, wizard, cleric, or rogue.

I admit, this product isn't for everyone. But it is definately for me...and I'm going to be hosting a little thing here for your joy soon enough...

 

[seankreynolds]

Also, I think some of the mosters are just dumb at lower levels. As someone else, Vrocks aren't level 1, ever. The way it works is that when a demon or devil (or celestial or whatever) is "promoted" from an old form to a new, they emerge as a full version of that old form. They aren't "born" as weak vrocks/planetars/whatever..

According to Planescape, perhaps. But 3E D&D doesn't use PS rules.

If every time a bell rings, an angel gets its wings ... doesn't that mean that even angels start out as something weaker than full angel power?

 

[Hardhead]

Sorry to do a quasi-hijack, but does PCGEN allow for monstrous PCs easily? How do you like PCGen in general, Psion? Could you maybe do a review of it (perhaps after the Codemonkey agreement has gone through).

PCGen is great for most monster PCs. You can pretty much just choose them as your race and it handles everything else. Easy.

As for the Savage Species rules... less easy. PCGen ties HD to level, as of course every other book does. However, in SS you have "monster levels" that don't pick up hit dice. And as it stands right now, there's no way to tell PCGen "no hit dice this level." I've coded in the minotaur that appeared on the WotC website, and it works right, for the most part. The only issue is the hit points.

According to Planescape, perhaps. But 3E D&D doesn't use PS rules.

If every time a bell rings, an angel gets its wings ... doesn't that mean that even angels start out as something weaker than full angel power?

In all previous editions, in fact, IIRC. And I had assumed it was the same in 3e as well. I don't mind rewriting rules with editions, but I do mind rewriting "flavor," with quite so much leeway. That's just my opinion, though, and others may feel diferently.

I think of it like the choirs of angels in catholic mythology. You've got angels at many different levels, and there are no archangels that are more powerful than any seraphim.

But, anyway, over all I do think SS is a good book, especially for being so ambitious. My only complaints are the "some monsters just shouldn't go so low" thing, and I'd have prefered to see more wemics and other monstrous humanoids that'd be more common in a campaign. But then, I suppose I can do those myself.

Anyway, that's my opinion on the whole thing.


- Z ac h

 

[Vrylakos]

I like and use PCGen. I find complaints about the interface overblown; I don't find CS any better and find e-tools much worse. I really hope they get their IP problems and new data sets squared away post-haste, as I really don't have time to code in everything new I want to include. (But it is cool that I can!)

As for a review - not likely in the near future. My current review policy is that printed products come first, and I have quite a backlog, and now that I am an ennies judge again, it is only likely to get worse. I simply do not think it is fair that someone who can give me a download for the cost of bandwidth should have as high a priority as those who spend money to ship me a printed copy. This policy has aggravated some electronic product companies, but I can't please all the people all the time.

Hm, thanks for your feedback. I see where you're coming from with your review policy. I was just hopeful that you razorsharp perceptive powers could give me more info, but you've given me enough, methinks.

Thanks!

Darren

 

[Spatula]

The only problem I run into is with the suspension of disbelief regarding rapid growth.

I mean, a first-level Stone Giant is...Medium-sized? But a few years later, he's fifteen feet tall.

It works fine with characters who only grow to Large size...you can assume that they start right on the top edge of Medium and keep growing.

You mean like Stone Giants? None of the giants that are given level progressions grow past Large size.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

In all previous editions, in fact. And I had assumed it was the same in 3e as well. I don't mind rewriting rules with editions, but I do mind rewriting "flavor," with quite so much leeway.

I had never heard that demons "upgraded" to new forms in past versions, but it is possible I missed it.

SD

edit: So what is the chain? What comes before/after a Vrock? Has it changed in editions? Now I am curious.

 

[Spatula]

Another is playing a Titan starting at size M -- would the other PCs have to change their diapers?

Well, there's no level progression given for Titans. So that's something a DM would have to come up with and approve on his own.

The idea of starting out as a 1st level Vrock just is absurd.

How is playing a fledgling demon absurd?

 

[Tokiwong]

this book was not for me, but I am sure it is useful, somewhere...

 

[Irony]

First of, I dont have SS... yet.

But a question for those who do:
Does SS have a height/weight/age table for all the races it details, or even some of them. Or should i just BS how long my half-ogre has to live(his natural lifetime, that is)?