Savage Species- is there something wrong with me!?

[jester47]

Anyway, that's been my reaction so far. If someone can tell me why monster classes make sense, other than game balance, I'm all ears. I really want to like the book, the concept just seems so bad to me.

I hope you were not replying to me, cause I agree with you. I think the Monster classes are a kinda weak concept. I was just pointing out where you can learn the most about the book. I like the ECL combined with stat rolling much better.

The best parts of the book IMO are 1-24 and 29-151. You will get miles out of those pages. Very very useful and great for throwing balance to the wind (if you are into that sort of thing) or maintaining balance (if you are into that).

Aaron.

 

[Hardhead]

How is playing a fledgling demon absurd?

It's not. But a fledgling demon is called a "Dretch." A vrock is a freakin' greater tanar'ri, one that has proved itself in battle time and time again in battles against the baatezu and the celestials. You don't get to be a vrock, unless you've got lots of experience, and are a powerful creature.


- Z a c h

 

[Piratecat]

So, would a flumph monk use kumph flu?

Wow. You win!

 

[Chauzu]

Wait... so there's no orc, goblin, bugbear, hobgoblin, gnoll etc?

If not... then I'm gonna have to skip this book. I'm not going to buy the book just for the minotaur, deinonychus, or illithid. I wouldn't allow most of the oddball monsters like vrock, titan, or ankheg, or whatever weird stuff is in there.

 

[WanderingMonster]

Wait... so there's no orc, goblin, bugbear, hobgoblin, gnoll etc?

If not... then I'm gonna have to skip this book. I'm not going to buy the book just for the minotaur, deinonychus, or illithid. I wouldn't allow most of the oddball monsters like vrock, titan, or ankheg, or whatever weird stuff is in there.

The ones you want are in there, they just don't have an associated "monster class". It's just that there's no need, really since most of those are ECL 1 and have few special abilities. The monster classes are mostly advanced monsters if I'm not mistaken.

Besides, the book is full of nice feats, spells, templates, tips on using all the feats/spells/templates, and campaign suggestions that it makes it a good puchase, even if you're not hyped on monster classes.

 

[Hardhead]

Wait... so there's no orc, goblin, bugbear, hobgoblin, gnoll etc?

The ones you want are in there, they just don't have an associated "monster class". It's just that there's no need, really since most of those are ECL 1 and have few special abilities. The monster classes are mostly advanced monsters if I'm not mistaken.

Note that SS changes the definitions of some stuff slightly, so when he says ECL 1, he means what used to be called "ECL +0." A human, elf, ect. are all ECL 1.

Anyway, while orcs and goblins are ECL 1 (though, IMO, orcs are slightly overpowered at 1, and should be a weak 2 instead of a powerful 1). Bugbears are ECL 4, Hobgoblins are 2, and Gnolls are 3. The book gives you a guide on how to create monster classes, but no, it doesn't have monster classes for these guys. I was somewhat diappointed by this myself. I'd have prefered more monster races like this.

 

[Desdichado]

Wait... so there's no orc, goblin, bugbear, hobgoblin, gnoll etc?

Dude, orcs? hobgoblins? You need SS for that? The DMG gives you everything you need to play an orc, goblin, hobgoblin, etc. type races easily. This book is for the more exotic creatures. I can imagine a campaign using SS and MotP and being one heck of an exciting and exotic campaign. Sure, not what I'm in the mood for everyday, but I can see doing something like that some day.

 

[Spatula]

It's not. But a fledgling demon is called a "Dretch." A vrock is a freakin' greater tanar'ri, one that has proved itself in battle time and time again in battles against the baatezu and the celestials. You don't get to be a vrock, unless you've got lots of experience, and are a powerful creature.

*shrug* That's fine for Planescape, or the Great Wheel cosmology (which is no longer the assumed standard), but those sorts of things are not going to be true for every campaign world.

 

[hong]

It's not. But a fledgling demon is called a "Dretch." A vrock is a freakin' greater tanar'ri, one that has proved itself in battle time and time again in battles against the baatezu and the celestials. You don't get to be a vrock, unless you've got lots of experience, and are a powerful creature.

Given that 3E explicitly shies away from having any sort of universally applicable cosmology, I'm boggled at how you can make these sorts of overarching statements.

Tell me now that Mt Celestia and the Abyss feature in my campaign. Go on.

 

[Chauzu]

Phew. I'm glad they're in then... and I'm glad they're not monster classes. That would be kinda silly for a goblin monster class. Thanks for the info guys and/or gals.