Savage Species- is there something wrong with me!?

[Spatula]

Wait... so there's no orc, goblin, bugbear, hobgoblin, gnoll etc?

If not... then I'm gonna have to skip this book. I'm not going to buy the book just for the minotaur, deinonychus, or illithid. I wouldn't allow most of the oddball monsters like vrock, titan, or ankheg, or whatever weird stuff is in there.

The book covers every monster in MM that doesn't have an ECL (HD + level adjustments) greater than 20. It also breaks down some of the more complex monsters into a monster class so that you can start playing one at 1st level. Creatures like orc, goblin, hobgoblin, don't have any racial HD nor much of a level adjustment, so there's no need for a class breakdown. Bugbears, gnolls, etc. have HD but no special powers so a class breakdown is almost trivial, once you have the level adjustment. The ogre is probably the most mundane creature broken down into levels and so serves as a decent guideline.

The book also has feats, spells, prestige classes, a whole bunch of new templates, and some suggestions on running monster-themed campaigns.

 

[Hardhead]

Given that 3E explicitly shies away from having any sort of universally applicable cosmology, I'm boggled at how you can make these sorts of overarching statements.

I fail to se how the cosmology is really relevant. You've got to have an assumed base to work from. Sure, you can have a variant, but there still needs to be a standard. Vrocks are tanar'ri outsiders. That's how tanar'ri have always worked before.

For instance, I've there's stuff written in 2e about Saurials. Now, I'm not playing FR, but I may want to use Saurials. I may treat saurials differently, but when they published stuff about them in Dragon, they stayed pretty consistent to the backstory of 2e.

Not only that, but the backstory of 2e has generally always been held as correct. It annoys me when "flavor" is changed and rewritten for no particular reason. Should I throw out all my old 2e stuff? Even the mostly-flavor books?

 

[Spatula]

There's not a lot of "flavor" in Savage Species. I didn't see any real information on vrocks (or any other demon) at all, other than, "This is what a vrock would look like if you divided its abilities into class form." SS is about as much as a "rules toolkit" as you can possibly get. Use what fits for your campaign, ignore the rest.

 

[Ulrick]

I bought it for $11.12.

I'm certainly glad I didn't pay more for it. But I really can't complain because it was so cheap.

Yeah, sure, I'll probably never have a player run an Air Elemental PC.

But I really do like all of the options presented. The choices are almost inexhaustable.

That's what I like about 3e--All the options. SS is chock full of options.

Viva la difference!

 

[Sholari]

What a wonderful idea for new roleplaying supplement. I just can't wait until they come up with a book where you can play actually roleplay gods. Better yet maybe a book full of prestige classes where you can get all 25s for all your attributes and cast 15th level wizard spells. Seriously folks... I'm all for options but some of these "crunchy bits" are ways for power gamers to circumvent game balance.

 

[hong]

What a wonderful idea for new roleplaying supplement. I just can't wait until they come up with a book where you can play actually roleplay gods.

Someone is working on that, I believe.

Better yet maybe a book full of prestige classes where you can get all 25s for all your attributes and cast 15th level wizard spells.

Oh dear, your brane has explodiated.

Seriously folks... I'm all for options but some of these "crunchy bits" are ways for power gamers to circumvent game balance.

No sane powergamer is going to play a monster, given the stupidly high ECLs given in the books. If you're going to toss around mindless complaints, at least have the courtesy of using plausible ones.

 

[hong]

Given that 3E explicitly shies away from having any sort of universally applicable cosmology, I'm boggled at how you can make these sorts of overarching statements.

I fail to se how the cosmology is really relevant. You've got to have an assumed base to work from. Sure, you can have a variant, but there still needs to be a standard.

And there is. See that thing called a "statblock"? That's your standard. Everything else is fluff.

Vrocks are tanar'ri outsiders. That's how tanar'ri have always worked before.

The distant sound you hear is a paradigm leaving the station without you.

 

[jester47]

What a wonderful idea for new roleplaying supplement. I just can't wait until they come up with a book where you can play actually roleplay gods.

Oh, you mean like Dieties and Demigods?

Better yet maybe a book full of prestige classes where you can get all 25s for all your attributes and cast 15th level wizard spells.

Who needs a book of prestige classes to do that when you have the Epic Level Handbook?

Seriously folks... I'm all for options but some of these "crunchy bits" are ways for power gamers to circumvent game balance.

Yeah, but only if the DM is asleep at the table or doesn't have a spine.

Aaron.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Seriously folks... I'm all for options but some of these "crunchy bits" are ways for power gamers to circumvent game balance.

Why is this the standard comment from people that don't like how a book doesn't meet their campeign standards?

"If I don't see a rational use for it, then it is just for immature/munchkins/powergamers/penguins/whatever."

SD

 

[Hardhead]

And there is. See that thing called a "statblock"? That's your standard. Everything else is fluff.

If you're the type of player that believes that nothing else besides combat statistics is really relevant, then there's not much point in us debating. We have very different styles.

The distant sound you hear is a paradigm leaving the station without you.

*shrug* Obviously, WotC can change whatever they want, but why do so if it isn't necessary? Would Dark Sun fans have been upset if Thri-kreen had been changed in the MM2 so that they were now born live (instead of in eggs) and didn't have that weird clutch-memory thing? Probably, because it would have been a pointless change, it would have been just changing flavor for the sake of it. Would Forgotten Realms fans have been upset if Lloth was no longer the major goddess of the drow? Probably. Would PS fans be annoyed if they completly changed how Outsiders work in the default cosmology? Yeah. It annoys me because there's no real reason to do it.

In fact, he could have made a much cooler class that started out as a Dretch and changed forms as they leveled and advanced through the tanar'ri ranks. That'd have been really nifty.

Seriously folks... I'm all for options but some of these "crunchy bits" are ways for power gamers to circumvent game balance.

Yeah, but only if the DM is asleep at the table or doesn't have a spine.

That's not an excuse. They've repeatedly said that they want to "remove the DM from the equation". In other words, the DM shouldn't have to worry about game balance, becuase it's already balanced. I haven't read through SS enough to know if it's balanced or not, but if it isn't, then it should be. I pay for products so I don't have to Rule 0 everything. I want something that is balanced no matter what.