Savage Species??

[Khaalis]

Has anyone else notice that all of the ECL's given in the Forgotten Realms book have been up'ed by one or more?

Ex:
Bugbear: in FR = ECL 3 / on SS = ECL 4
Trol: in FR = ECL 8 / on SS = ECL 11

Does anyone else wonder/worry about the discrepencies between "official" products?

What are peoples thoughts on the "Special Ruling" for 1 Hit Die racial types? Why do only 1 Hit Die racial types get this advantage?

Just my first few thoughts as I begin to devour the information in Savage Species.

Is anyone else using these rules to HR new racial classes?

 

[GravyFingerz]

Has anyone else notice that all of the ECL's given in the Forgotten Realms book have been up'ed by one or more?

Ex:
Bugbear: in FR = ECL 3 / on SS = ECL 4
Trol: in FR = ECL 8 / on SS = ECL 11

Does anyone else wonder/worry about the discrepencies between "official" products?

What are peoples thoughts on the "Special Ruling" for 1 Hit Die racial types? Why do only 1 Hit Die racial types get this advantage?

Just my first few thoughts as I begin to devour the information in Savage Species.

Is anyone else using these rules to HR new racial classes?

The equation is hit dice + level adjustment.

Their level adjustments are relatively small compared to their hit dice. You get hit dice and ability. Hence, they are high.

 

[Knight Otu]

As I don't have the book yet, you should take my post with a grain of salt.

Has anyone else notice that all of the ECL's given in the Forgotten Realms book have been up'ed by one or more?
Ex:
Bugbear: in FR = ECL 3 / on SS = ECL 4
Trol: in FR = ECL 8 / on SS = ECL 11
Does anyone else wonder/worry about the discrepencies between "official" products?

These changes have already been made in the errata for the FRCS. Thus, there are no "real" discrepancies in this case. (Whether I agree with the changes is a different question )

What are peoples thoughts on the "Special Ruling" for 1 Hit Die racial types? Why do only 1 Hit Die racial types get this advantage?

I assume you refer to the fact that these creatures replace their racial HD with class HDs? It is not a new rule, as it has already been described in the MM and, I believe, in the DMG.

Hope that helps?

 

[Khaalis]

A few responses:

These changes have already been made in the errata for the FRCS. Thus, there are no "real" discrepancies in this case.

I will have to check the errata. I did not have a copy of that information to compare to, and didnt know they had been changed.

I assume you refer to the fact that these creatures replace their racial HD with class HDs? It is not a new rule, as it has already been described in the MM and, I believe, in the DMG.

My point here is why only 1HD creatures? I know how the process works and have made quite a few Races from 1HD creatures in the past.

However, with the new system... Why does this apply ONLY to 1HD creatures? Why does this not apply to say a 3HD creature?

The machanic is that the Race gives up its Natural HD, BAB, Saves, Feats, and Skills and thus becomes ECL 0 and can start simply with a a Class.

Take the Minotaur Example form p.28. Why cant you have a young Minotaur that gains the base Minotaur "Racial Traits" that then becomes a 1st level Fighter rather than HAVING to become a "full blown" Minotaur?

 

[Trine]

The 1HD monsters are all assumed to be written up as a 1st level Warrior of the race. They don't have 1 natural HD, they have 1 Warrior class HD.

Creatures with more HD than that aren't just Warriors with more levels, they're naturally a beefier monster.

That's how I remember it anyway.

 

[Kraedin]

There are at least some creatures that have one "monster" hit die that they lose upon taking a class. A planetouched, I belive, has 1 outsider hit die, but loses when they gain class levels.

 

[Knight Otu]

Kraedin is correct on the 1 HD monsters. The planetouched, among others, do have 1 Outsider HD. And the kobolds have 1/2 Humanoid HD.

As for the question at hand, I suppose it is done as a way of keeping a consistency between the actual monster and characters of that monster race. I do not like the rule that you cannot leave the Monster class before completing it, either though.

 

[Zeddan]

Take the Minotaur Example form p.28. Why cant you have a young Minotaur that gains the base Minotaur "Racial Traits" that then becomes a 1st level Fighter rather than HAVING to become a "full blown" Minotaur?

It looks as though this rule was included to prevent a character from taking a single level or two of a powerful species, and then putting all of their levels into fighter, which would get better saves and BAB than the monster class. I personally will allow my players to take a level of another class as long 'other' levels do not exceed half of the monster class level.

Zeddan

 

[David Eckelberry]

I'm writing in response to a poster here who would like "immature" Minotaurs to be able to take class levels in fighter (or whatever) rather than finishing all of the levels of his or her monster class.

Let me explain why I had to adopt a hard change to the multiclassing rules for the monster classes. The fact of the matter is that the monsters are balanced for gameplay, as best we could, over the life of the character. There may be individual levels during which the character is somewhat better, or worse than other characters of that ECL. There's no real way around this issue, especially with some of the more complex monster characters such as outsiders.

So be it. What that means is, though, that we need to require characters to finish their monster classes, reaching the end "balance-point" before they take the best-possible combinations of classes and prestige classes.

Back to lurk mode.

 

[Jeremy]

makes sense to me