D&D 5E Savage Tide Adventure Path

[humble minion]

Thoughts on truncating this adventure and just basing out of Sasserine?

Go to the isle, maybe help Farshore but change the plot?

Shift the focus to Farshore or Sasserine?

You could do it. It'd need some rewriting though. Regardless of the solution you chose, the main issues would be around the Tides of Dread adventure. It's kind of a colony-bulding effort, bit of a quasi-hexcrawl, and culminates with an invasion of Farshore - a bunch of pirates, some demons, Vanthus etc. It's fairly small scale, the PCs can coordinate the defense and be the big heroes. If the attack is instead on Sasserine, then it by necessity becomes a much, much larger-scale thing, major wizards will get involved, all of Sasserine will be up in arms etc. Even to mount an assault on that scale, Vanthus would need to basically mobilise all of Scuttlecove, and the campaign isn't remotely ready for THAT yet. The PCs are (from memory) not even 10th level at this stage - you'd need to make sure the focus remains on them. Why hasn't anyone done any hexcrawling, or hunted the Great Beasts, or sought out Zotzilaha, before they got here? And justify a reason why the PCs are the ones who have to troop into the underdark after the aboleths, or head to the City of Broken Idols. If they're the Big Damn Heroes of Farshore it makes sense that everyone turns to them, if they're just another set of adventurers in much-larger-Sasserine,then maybe less so.

Option 1 could be to replace Farshore with Sasserine as the city on the Isle Of Dread. Start the campaign in media res, with the PCs and Lavinia on a ship heading towards the Isle of Dread. You'd need to replace the first couple of land-bound adventures, and in the process find alternative ways to introduce the Vanderborens, the concept of the savage tide, etc etc. Other problem with this approach is the same as the campaign as written - after Tides of Dread the PCs won't actually spend much time in their home port of Sasserine, other than downtime. There's two adventures in the inland of the Isle, then one in Scuttlecove, then the rest of the campaign is mostly extraplanar.

Option 2 makes Sasserine the centre of the whole thing, and the City Of Broken Idols is actually just a bit inland of Sasserine itself, in which case the Sea Wyvern's Wake never happens, and Here There Be Monsters never happens (or perhaps Sea Wyvern's wake a trip out to ... somewhere ... to pursue Vanthus after Bullywug Gambit, and then the ship gets wrecked and Here There Be Monsters is the PCs trying to return to Sasserine). Again, you run into the whole issue of 'this jungle is stuffed full of demons etc and there's a whole big city over there and WHY HAS NOBODY DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT BEFORE NOW??'

Or perhaps Farshore is a relatively small but secret Vanderboren commercial venture (perhaps a gem mine, or maybe cultivating rare herbs or something) just a week or so by ship down the coast from Sasserine, which would make travel between the two much easier. Which means at least the PCs can meaningfully defend it against Vanthus in Tides of Dread without all of Sasserine mobilising, but could still pop back to Sasserine without too much difficulty afterwards.

If you're looking to truncate, the most obvious point is after City Of Broken Idols. The Aspect of Demogorgon there is the big bad of the whole thing, no need to go to the abyss, end of story. Alternatively, you could also stop after Tides of Dread - Vanthus's attack on Farshore is defeated, the PCs beat him down against the dual timebombs of his Shadow Pearl and the vrocks performing a Dance of Ruin. The loose plot thread there is of course where the Shadow Pearls come from in the first place, but as a final mini-dungeon crawl give Vanthus a giant demonic flagship encrusted with monstrously deformed fiendish oysters and that'll pretty much do the job...

 

[Zardnaar]

You could do it. It'd need some rewriting though. Regardless of the solution you chose, the main issues would be around the Tides of Dread adventure. It's kind of a colony-bulding effort, bit of a quasi-hexcrawl, and culminates with an invasion of Farshore - a bunch of pirates, some demons, Vanthus etc. It's fairly small scale, the PCs can coordinate the defense and be the big heroes. If the attack is instead on Sasserine, then it by necessity becomes a much, much larger-scale thing, major wizards will get involved, all of Sasserine will be up in arms etc. Even to mount an assault on that scale, Vanthus would need to basically mobilise all of Scuttlecove, and the campaign isn't remotely ready for THAT yet. The PCs are (from memory) not even 10th level at this stage - you'd need to make sure the focus remains on them. Why hasn't anyone done any hexcrawling, or hunted the Great Beasts, or sought out Zotzilaha, before they got here? And justify a reason why the PCs are the ones who have to troop into the underdark after the aboleths, or head to the City of Broken Idols. If they're the Big Damn Heroes of Farshore it makes sense that everyone turns to them, if they're just another set of adventurers in much-larger-Sasserine,then maybe less so.

Option 1 could be to replace Farshore with Sasserine as the city on the Isle Of Dread. Start the campaign in media res, with the PCs and Lavinia on a ship heading towards the Isle of Dread. You'd need to replace the first couple of land-bound adventures, and in the process find alternative ways to introduce the Vanderborens, the concept of the savage tide, etc etc. Other problem with this approach is the same as the campaign as written - after Tides of Dread the PCs won't actually spend much time in their home port of Sasserine, other than downtime. There's two adventures in the inland of the Isle, then one in Scuttlecove, then the rest of the campaign is mostly extraplanar.

Option 2 makes Sasserine the centre of the whole thing, and the City Of Broken Idols is actually just a bit inland of Sasserine itself, in which case the Sea Wyvern's Wake never happens, and Here There Be Monsters never happens (or perhaps Sea Wyvern's wake a trip out to ... somewhere ... to pursue Vanthus after Bullywug Gambit, and then the ship gets wrecked and Here There Be Monsters is the PCs trying to return to Sasserine). Again, you run into the whole issue of 'this jungle is stuffed full of demons etc and there's a whole big city over there and WHY HAS NOBODY DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT BEFORE NOW??'

Or perhaps Farshore is a relatively small but secret Vanderboren commercial venture (perhaps a gem mine, or maybe cultivating rare herbs or something) just a week or so by ship down the coast from Sasserine, which would make travel between the two much easier. Which means at least the PCs can meaningfully defend it against Vanthus in Tides of Dread without all of Sasserine mobilising, but could still pop back to Sasserine without too much difficulty afterwards.

If you're looking to truncate, the most obvious point is after City Of Broken Idols. The Aspect of Demogorgon there is the big bad of the whole thing, no need to go to the abyss, end of story. Alternatively, you could also stop after Tides of Dread - Vanthus's attack on Farshore is defeated, the PCs beat him down against the dual timebombs of his Shadow Pearl and the vrocks performing a Dance of Ruin. The loose plot thread there is of course where the Shadow Pearls come from in the first place, but as a final mini-dungeon crawl give Vanthus a giant demonic flagship encrusted with monstrously deformed fiendish oysters and that'll pretty much do the job...

Well the plot is changed and Canthus is the new BBEG.

Sasserine becomes more prominent and the PCs return there unless they want to do domain building.

 

[toucanbuzz]

For the DM's who did convert and play this what did they think?

Interesting timing on the thread resurrection! Background: I converted and ran Savage Tide in 5E a few years ago and am currently running it (moved to another state, new group).

If you're serious about running it, you need to visit the Savage Tide, Dungeon Magazine, subforum at the Paizo.com website (they published the Dungeon Magazine campaigns). TONS of DM and developer responses on those, a treasure trove. I can't iterate this enough: you owe it to yourself to check them out. It turned the campaign from good to awesome. Some of my old input is probably on there, and I've got all my notes and conversions through Farpoint. If you need notes, I can send you what I've got.

You also need to know that IF players don't loathe Vanthus and come to care for Lavinia, Savage Tide won't work. Players won't care. The forum will help quite a bit. Also, it's not a pirate campaign or really a sea-faring campaign. Yes, you spend 3 months on a boat, but there's only 1 time ship-to-ship combat comes into play (it's not the focus, see below).

1st Go:

Ran the adventures largely as-is, but again really boosted up Vanthus and Lavinia's stories. Boosted NPC content. Sasserine is a fantastic setting, and you'll need a reason players will be willing to leave it. For me, I use in all my campaigns "background links to the campaign" that players can pick through and add to their character story (e.g. you're obsessed with the Isle of Dread and have collected lore from people claiming they were actually there, handouts from Dragon magazine). Others had strong links to Lavinia, such as having gone to school with her. I then ran a roleplay prequel (wherein players roleplayed how they did Lavinia's family a solid, justifying why she later called on them).

Otherwise, early on savage creatures are NASTY. It's very easy to die at levels 1-2.

In Module 3, there's nearly 30 NPCs to track. I made a visual with pictures for each. If someone died (and some will), we could mark them off. Each NPC has a short backstory, and on the long ship ride (it's 3 months, and most of that time, nothing is happening, just like a real sea voyage), it's crucial social stuff is going on. Your campaign can slog down, and you can't be "spicing it up" with a fight on the seas every other day. You'll also want to change the ship wreck. Players hate the idea the DM scripted it so that no matter what they do, it's going to happen. For us, it affected who survived. The social part is important so the PCs will be inspired to protect those NPCs on the Isle.

On the Isle, it's not set up for hexploration. At Farpoint, the PCs pre-battle prep should have a heavy impact on how the battle goes.

My players wiped at level 11 deep below the ground in a heroic sacrifice to stop black pearl manufacture. We ended there, feeling pretty good. It's a LONG campaign. If you play to level 20, that will likely take 2-3 years. Players were ready for something new.

Things I learned: Getting to level 20 just isn't realistic for most groups, and at the higher levels, this one turns into a lot of fights, albeit interesting ones, and less role play. You need to have a stop point in mind, or consider chopping down everything past Farpoint (9th level and on), and shrinking it to level 12-15.

Things I'm doing differently now: I inserted Ruin of Tamoachan from Yawning Portal instead of the abbreviated version. No changes needed other than a plot item, just an adjustment in leveling (I use milestone, they started at 5th and exited at 6th level). It gives a lot of loot. I'm also ending it at saving Farpoint. I've considered perhaps after shutting down pearl manufacture, but it's my first go with this group and there's a fatigue factor trying to hit level 20 with your first major campaign.

 

[Zardnaar]

Interesting timing on the thread resurrection! Background: I converted and ran Savage Tide in 5E a few years ago and am currently running it (moved to another state, new group).

If you're serious about running it, you need to visit the Savage Tide, Dungeon Magazine, subforum at the Paizo.com website (they published the Dungeon Magazine campaigns). TONS of DM and developer responses on those, a treasure trove. I can't iterate this enough: you owe it to yourself to check them out. It turned the campaign from good to awesome. Some of my old input is probably on there, and I've got all my notes and conversions through Farpoint. If you need notes, I can send you what I've got.

You also need to know that IF players don't loathe Vanthus and come to care for Lavinia, Savage Tide won't work. Players won't care. The forum will help quite a bit. Also, it's not a pirate campaign or really a sea-faring campaign. Yes, you spend 3 months on a boat, but there's only 1 time ship-to-ship combat comes into play (it's not the focus, see below).

1st Go:

Ran the adventures largely as-is, but again really boosted up Vanthus and Lavinia's stories. Boosted NPC content. Sasserine is a fantastic setting, and you'll need a reason players will be willing to leave it. For me, I use in all my campaigns "background links to the campaign" that players can pick through and add to their character story (e.g. you're obsessed with the Isle of Dread and have collected lore from people claiming they were actually there, handouts from Dragon magazine). Others had strong links to Lavinia, such as having gone to school with her. I then ran a roleplay prequel (wherein players roleplayed how they did Lavinia's family a solid, justifying why she later called on them).

Otherwise, early on savage creatures are NASTY. It's very easy to die at levels 1-2.

In Module 3, there's nearly 30 NPCs to track. I made a visual with pictures for each. If someone died (and some will), we could mark them off. Each NPC has a short backstory, and on the long ship ride (it's 3 months, and most of that time, nothing is happening, just like a real sea voyage), it's crucial social stuff is going on. Your campaign can slog down, and you can't be "spicing it up" with a fight on the seas every other day. You'll also want to change the ship wreck. Players hate the idea the DM scripted it so that no matter what they do, it's going to happen. For us, it affected who survived. The social part is important so the PCs will be inspired to protect those NPCs on the Isle.

On the Isle, it's not set up for hexploration. At Farpoint, the PCs pre-battle prep should have a heavy impact on how the battle goes.

My players wiped at level 11 deep below the ground in a heroic sacrifice to stop black pearl manufacture. We ended there, feeling pretty good. It's a LONG campaign. If you play to level 20, that will likely take 2-3 years. Players were ready for something new.

Things I learned: Getting to level 20 just isn't realistic for most groups, and at the higher levels, this one turns into a lot of fights, albeit interesting ones, and less role play. You need to have a stop point in mind, or consider chopping down everything past Farpoint (9th level and on), and shrinking it to level 12-15.

Things I'm doing differently now: I inserted Ruin of Tamoachan from Yawning Portal instead of the abbreviated version. No changes needed other than a plot item, just an adjustment in leveling (I use milestone, they started at 5th and exited at 6th level). It gives a lot of loot. I'm also ending it at saving Farpoint. I've considered perhaps after shutting down pearl manufacture, but it's my first go with this group and there's a fatigue factor trying to hit level 20 with your first major campaign.

This is why I'm thinking of changing the plot and making Vanthus the big bad.

 

[toucanbuzz]

This is why I'm thinking of changing the plot and making Vanthus the big bad.

It's doable if Vanthus keeps coming back. One of the things that makes him totally despicable is he keeps getting free passes by using people: his parents, Lavinia, Brissa, the Lotus Dragons, and so on. I took a ton of ideas from a poster named Vermilleo as he detailed his campaign. It's brilliant. While I didn't use everything, his ideas fleshed out my Vanthus, and he had great ideas (his group never finished the campaign) of keeping Vanthus as a recurring, escalating villain (even though the ultimate BBEG is "you know who" demon lord). By coming back for being despicable, he keeps getting free passes. Combine this with some creepiness towards Lavinia and can guarantee players will hate this guy and take great satisfaction if they ever catch up to him.

 

[humble minion]

I took a ton of ideas from a poster named Vermilleo as he detailed his campaign. It's brilliant. While I didn't use everything, his ideas fleshed out my Vanthus, and he had great ideas (his group never finished the campaign) of keeping Vanthus as a recurring, escalating villain

That's a great campaign summary, and there was a lot of parallels with how i ran things, actually. 100% endorse that you really have to rub in how repulsive Vanthus is. Lavinia really needs to be portrayed as competent, otherwise the PCs can end up feeling like they're rescuing her a bit too much. I was hoping to set up a romance between her and the PC half-orc scout, but the players weren't really into that sort of thing unfortunately. The crew and colonists on the Sea Wyvern's Wake really need personalities and relationships of their own, the PCs are going to exert a lot of effort keeping these people alive, they need to know them. Personally I focused on Avner, playing him as your perfectly stereotypical useless entitled nobleman. Jeez the PCs hated him. And his servant Quenge was one of the more memorable NPCs i had - he was a hunchback who spoke in a cringing 'Igor-the-mad-scientist's-henchman' voice and dropped occasional references to how horribly Avner treated him ("No master, Quenge is so sorry, master, please master - I don't want to go back into the box..."). Beef up Rowyn when she stows away on the ship, or she's just too weak. I can't remember exactly what I did mechanically (or how she got this way), but my Rowyn was this semi-cursed quasi-real abyssal thing that slipped in and out of reality and dreams the whole voyage. Also, my Xiureksior also made it onto the Farshore council, and for the same reasons as Vermillio posted. Oh, and the trap/puzzle thing at the end of Here There Be Monsters, in the bar-lgura's dungeon, is one of the most bizarre and incomprehensible things I've seen in a published module and I'd thoroughly recommend ignoring it.

 

[solomanii]

Great stuff, yes raid the Paizo forums for more info. For those who converted it do you have your conversion online?

Reading through the adventures now, it would seem like you could just jump to "Here Be Monsters"?

 

[humble minion]

Main problem with skipping the stuff before HTBM is that the PCs need to care about Lavinia and really hate Vanthus. All this groundwork is done in the first couple of adventures. You;d need to find an alternative way to establish those relationships. Lavinia could of course get shipwrecked with everyone else in HTBM and they could get to know her then, but Vanthus is more of an issue.

Also, you do need to introduce the shadow pearls at some point.

 

[solomanii]

But do they? Is either of them relevant after the Isle of Dread? (have not read beyond this so maybe they are very important).

Edit: Or Lavina could be a PC?

 

[humble minion]

Lavinia is central to Tides of Dread of course, and Vanthus kidnapping Lavinia is the trigger/motivation for Serpents of Scuttlecove and Into the Maw in the campaign as written. You could come up with an alternative though, if you were determined to write her out of the story.

But in my case, she was basically the recurring NPC who the PCs related to the best and had known the longest. She might not be entirely necessary on a mechanical level, but on the level of roleplaying and NPC interaction, if she's not there then someone else will need to replace her.