Savage Tide AP not intriguing me

[ruleslawyer]

Yeah... spells like speak with dead, find the path, teleport, resurrection, and wind walk can really break classic adventure plots. It's kind of frustrating. Personally, I think the game is at its strongest in the mid levels, from 5th-12th level. Before that, PCs are too fragile and you can't really use a lot of monsters. After that, things start to get so complicated that statblocks can take up a page or more, and often games turn into one long combat session.

That, however, is the exact reason I'd like more high-level adventures. It's difficult to write good ones, and I think you've done quite a good job so far.

As to stat blocks: No way that you can just make a practice of putting them online? I know that this messes with the folks who don't have regular internet access, but perhaps there's a way to provide an equivalent placeholder NPC of equal CR? (So, something saying "The stat block for Edralve the Slave Lord can be found at the Paizo website. If you do not have access to that stat block, replace with the 15th-level NPC rogue from the DMG.")

 

[Sunderstone]

Which is in and of itself an interesting question. Is there a desire for a less epic campaign out there? Perhaps one that goes from 1st to 12th level over the course of a year, and focuses more on one level = one adventure?

No way.
Id rather have 1-20 any day. There are way more lower level romps than higher level romps. If I had to deal with a 1-12, I might be warmer to the idea if you did a different 12-20 AP as well.
You have alot of great writers at Dungeon now, doing a 1-12 AP over 6 months, then having another team doing a different 12-20 AP over the following 6 months wouldnt be that bad.


I still say keep it 1-20 and keep it epic.




Late Edit*** Would it still be an AP or would we re-term the smaller 1-12 an "Adventure Trail"

 

[Jaws]

I think a 1-12 Adventure Path would be excellent.

Finally another use for the d12.


Peace and smiles

j.

 

[rounser]

1) Have the PCs "by chance" stumble across pirates/monsters/etc. who happen to be much stronger than the norm. This leads to the lack of realism you point out.

2) Have the PCs go somewhere else where the average power level is higher. This also lacks some amount of realism. (Why hasn't the more powerful region come to dominate the less powerful region, leading to an equilibrium across the wider region?) The normal solution is to throw them into another world (Underdark, another plane, the Far Realms, etc.) which presumably wouldn't reach an equilibrium with the low level world. This leads to the "boredom" of extraplanar threats.

Good points, but perhaps not exhaustive. Another thought is a status quo dungeon that the PCs couldn't open the door to at level one, but all seems to lead to by high level. By the time the PCs can teleport in or pick the lock, they're ready for it. It's "realistic" in that it's always been there, and hasn't dominated because it's sealed off by magic wards or whatnot (probably for good reason). Requires a lot of planning ahead, though.

It also doesn't really constitute a "region" in the wilderness or urban sense either, so maybe it doesn't counter your points.

 

[Hussar]

I like the high-level adventures a lot because I have trouble writing them, so I am going to vote for keeping the Adventure Paths going up to level 20. The mid-level spot that everybody seems to love so much is also the easiest to write my own adventures for. The teleporting and the "game-breaking" abilities of higher level adventurers are only "game-breaking" because most DMs have trouble making adventurers that take this into account. Dungeon magazine not only makes good high-level adventures, they also show me basically what sort of things need to be done to keep the players interested and challenged.

So keep the APs from 1-20. They are not only fun, but teach DMs what a good adventure is for all levels of play.

And to keep this on-topic, I agree that the plot of Savage Tide doesn't intrigue me as much as the Age of Worms did. On the other hand, all of my players are super-excited about it and can't wait for me to run it. Go figure.

QFT

As has already been mentioned, there are a plethora of low and mid level adventures out there. More than could ever be used by a single group. Why cater to a market that's already bloated? Why not show how high level play can be done? I'm of the opinion that many people don't like high level play simply because there have been so few examples of it around the table. Most games fall apart at high levels simply because DM's get overwhelmed.

An AP is the perfect forum to show gamers that there is indeed life after 12th level.

 

[Ashrum the Black]

Me, I'm completely hooked and can't wait to run it. I'm converting it to run in an Iron Kingdoms Campaign. I'm going to set the main city as five fingers and tweak it to run there. I'm going to wait until my current campaign closes before running it, but I've already begun the adaption in my mind. Pirates, mysterious islands, and full broadsides of cannons. Oh yeah, this is going to be great!

I'd have to say that the first AP didn't grab me much though, the second did, and I'm managed to wrangle the chance to play in it for a change, this one though ... I just have to run it myself. I'm loving the entire premise so far and I can't wait to inflict on ... er, run it for my players.

-Ashrum

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

As has already been mentioned, there are a plethora of low and mid level adventures out there. More than could ever be used by a single group. Why cater to a market that's already bloated? Why not show how high level play can be done? I'm of the opinion that many people don't like high level play simply because there have been so few examples of it around the table. Most games fall apart at high levels simply because DM's get overwhelmed.

An AP is the perfect forum to show gamers that there is indeed life after 12th level.

How about:

1) APs aren't political statements, they're meant to be used. "Showing people how it's done" is better reserved for DMG3 or another sourcebook.

2) There will be three to four 1-20 APs from Paizo out before this is an issue. I simply don't buy that more than a handful of people will have run four 1-20 campaigns by then and be itching for another one. Playing around with the level range and doing short sequel arcs to the previous APs would be a great idea instead.

 

[Azgulor]

Another vote for 1-12 level adventure paths. Or even 3-12 if people feel that levels 1-2 are too weak.

I dislike high-level D&D play for most of the reasons that have already been listed. I've also found using 3rd-party sources like Grim Tales, True Sorcery, Conan, etc. help make high-level play viable without changing the campaign the way high-level default D&D does. Since that limits a publishers ability to sell adventures, a cap on Adventure Paths is a decent compromise for me.

Azgulor

 

[BryonD]

My thought would just be that you should be very slow and thoughtful when messing with a good thing.

 

[Wik]

Qft

My thought would just be that you should be very slow and thoughtful when messing with a good thing.

Absolutely. It seems like the APs are drawing in a lot of readers, so why mess with it?