Save and You're Dead! ... Soon

[Incenjucar]

You know, I haven't seen that addressed in the rules. That's a good question.

Though as a DM, I'd say an ally giving you a sudden save does not hasten you down the condition track.

I would dub it a "Delayed Reroll"

 

[VannATLC]

Actually, inline with Hobgoblin's abilities to generate a new save, I would rule that it does potentially hasten you down the condition track.

"I can do this, and give you another chance to fight it off, right now, or you can take your chances next turn." Is basically what I see it as.

 

[Mort_Q]

At the level where you'd be legitimately encountering beholders PCs have powers that allow free saves, rerolls, immediate interrupts, etc.

Not saying they ain't scary, they're just not insanely scary.

 

[chaotix42]

I too would rule that a 2nd save granted early by a power could potentially kill you. The benefit is that you are relieved of the dazed and weakened condition before your turn arrives, so you can act at full potential earlier than you would have. The alternative is... you die. >: )

Love Disintegrate too. 2d10 + 9, ongoing 2d20 (save ends), which becomes ongoing 2d6 (save ends)!

 

[Surgoshan]

Have you seen Orcus' Touch of Death? Its just a simple ATK against FORT and the creature is reduced to 0 HP (damage equal to the creatures bloodied value on a miss). Now thats a death attack.

Except at the level when you finally face Orcus, death is more of an inconvenience than anything else. Well, the first time around it's an inconvenience.

 

[Grazzt]

Have you seen Orcus' Touch of Death? Its just a simple ATK against FORT and the creature is reduced to 0 HP (damage equal to the creatures bloodied value on a miss). Now thats a death attack.

Bodak's gaze attack works along the same lines. Target has to be weakened first though, I believe. (Dont have my books with me @ work, but IIRC it's along those lines...)

 

[phloog]

Have you seen Orcus' Touch of Death? Its just a simple ATK against FORT and the creature is reduced to 0 HP (damage equal to the creatures bloodied value on a miss). Now thats a death attack.

Clarification: If I have 60 hit points, my BLOODIED value is 30, right?

Scenario - in the middle of the battle with Orcus, I find that I am reduced to 18 hit points - absolutely bloodied.

Orcus then used his ToD on me...if he HITS, I am reduced to 0 hp, a net loss of 18...

BUT if he MISSES, then I take 30 points of damage and am at -12?

Is this what the books say? It's better for him to miss me depending upon my state?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Sidenote: Beholders are nasty.

They scare me.

[snip woot mechanics]

Very cool, thx for posting.

Probably one of the things I've enjoyed most about 4e since folks started spoilerin'.

 

[CrimsonNeko]

Yeah....that's kind of weird. But there is another important detail. If you fail the save, you don't get any resistance to avoid the damage and immunity to necrotic damage doesn't count versus it. This only applies if you fail. If you succeed, you still get any resistance you might have. And trust me, if I'm going to fight orcus, I'm loading up on resistance!

 

[Celebrim]

I'm actually in favor of this by and large. 'Save or die' needed some tweaking, and the mechanic that they've ended up settling on (seen in the 'Sleep' spell and now lots of places) is for the most part a good one.

It's certainly alot better than what I feared they'd end up doing, which was marking your progress toward petrification/death/etc with tokens.