Saving Throws?

[Shadeus]

I was reading the Sleep spell on the sample Wizard character. It read:

The target is slowed (save ends). If the target fails its first saving throw against this power, the target becomes unconscious (save ends).

I get the first save is +5 vs. Will. So the wizard rolls d20 + 5 to beat a foe's Will Defense. But how does it work for subsequent rounds? It sounds like the victim then needs to make a save of some kind. Any speculation on how that would work? Defense is 10 + your modifiers. Does it become your defense -10 + d20? If so, what number (DC in 3E) do you need reach?

Just trying to clue in... Thanks for your help.

 

[dm4hire]

Saving throws are a basic roll where you try to beat a 10. Certain classes/races have abilities which modify the roll but for the most part it is an unmodified roll. Saving throws are now done to end ongoing effects.

 

[malraux]

I was reading the Sleep spell on the sample Wizard character. It read:



I get the first save is +5 vs. Will. So the wizard rolls d20 + 5 to beat a foe's Will Defense. But how does it work for subsequent rounds? It sounds like the victim then needs to make a save of some kind. Any speculation on how that would work? Defense is 10 + your modifiers. Does it become your defense -10 + d20? If so, what number (DC in 3E) do you need reach?

Just trying to clue in... Thanks for your help.

Saving throws are rolling a d20. 1-9 is a fail, 10-19 is a save, 20 removes all effects*. Some races get bonuses against certain things or even everything.


*: not sure if the 20 removes all effects in the RPG, though it does in DDM.

 

[mach1.9pants]

The first roll (when the wizard casts the spell) is not a save. It is an attack roll of +5 (INT based as most Wiz spells will be IMO) vs Will Defence. Very different from 3E.
Every round the effected character, at the end of his turn, rolls a d20. On a 10 or more he has made the save. This save can be modified by a general save bonus (Human Perseverence feat +1 to all saves) or specific save bonus (Eladrin +5 save vs charm)

 

[Shadeus]

Wow, sweet. Thanks everyone for the quick responses. So with some minor race bonuses, you it's really pretty random. So failing the initial defense roll is a bad thing, gotcha.

Cool, thanks for the info.

 

[shadowguidex]

Wow, sweet. Thanks everyone for the quick responses. So with some minor race bonuses, you it's really pretty random. So failing the initial defense roll is a bad thing, gotcha.

Cool, thanks for the info.

You don't make an initial defense roll. Your opponent rolls against your defense just like it was an armor class roll.

The Wizard casting a Fireball rolls an attack roll against your Reflex, you don't roll your Reflex against his Fireball.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Except you don't 'fail the first defence roll' The attacker rolls either 'hits' (slowed first round then unconcius from there on unless the target makes first save) or 'misses' (target slowed until save made)

 

[glass]

Wow, sweet. Thanks everyone for the quick responses. So with some minor race bonuses, you it's really pretty random.

Note that those bonuses really aren't minor. With the way saves work, even a +1 bonus is huge.


glass.

 

[Voss]

Wow, sweet. Thanks everyone for the quick responses. So with some minor race bonuses, you it's really pretty random. So failing the initial defense roll is a bad thing, gotcha.

Cool, thanks for the info.

Its pretty random in the first place. Every ongoing effect like this has a 55% chance of ending at the end of the targets turn. Every bonus actually makes it less random- its more and more likely that you shrug off any ongoing effect after one round. Which really makes ongoing effects fairly weak. (That may be good in some cases, but as a player, the wizards daily spells strike me as really unimpressive- I just don't like effects that I can't count on).

 

[Cadfan]

There are also class abilities that grant extra saves outside the regular order.

The Paladin, for example, can grant a save at a bonus to an ally using his Channel Divinity power. This looks to have replaced a lot of the "Remove X" abilities, but we won't know for sure until we see higher level characters.