Say NO to 3.5

[kreynolds]

Monte wasn't fired, he quit.

Right. That's why I edited my post (a little, he took off just before the hammer came down, so there's very little difference).

Also, I wouldn't really call AU <snip> a competing product...

I would. It's a book he wants to sell, and it will sell better if the PH is out of the way. I'm not saying he has a grand scheme to conquer the PH. I'm just saying the possiblity exists that he's financially and/or professionally biased, so I'm not interested in his opinion.

If I like my ravioli recipe, I'll ask you if you like it only out of courtesy. I don't really care if you like it. It's my ravioli. I like it. I'm biased.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Heh. And that means what, that a small company run by gamers for gamers is inherently better? Does that reasoning mean that F.A.T.A.L. isn't half-bad? Seriously, the track record of companies 'run by gamers, for gamers' hasn't really been all that good, has it?

One of the things about WotC is that they understand a business model. If 3.5 was soundly rejected by the fan base, than that will have an effect. But that doesn't immediately turn around and translate into 'a successful 3.5 will generate monthly updates'. Every time WotC makes a move, we hear about how the sky is falling. When WotC released 'Sword & Fist', speculation was how the days of TSR had returned. When WotC raised prices on the core books to match their printing costs, speculation came that a new age of greed was upon us, and D&D was doomed. When layoffs were announced, quality material from WotC was finished forever. And so on. I'm just not buying it.

There's nothing wrong with disliking 3.5...some folks have very valid reasons for doing so. I just have a hard time understanding why making a profit is so wrong, and why WotC is being demonized for not living on the edge of bankruptcy.

No a small company doesn't do inherently better, but I think they can put a little more weight on decisions about the game that are due to the needs of the game rather than Hasbro which is driven by the needs of the stockholders.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

No a small company doesn't do inherently better, but I think they can put a little more weight on decisions about the game that are due to the needs of the game rather than Hasbro which is driven by the needs of the stockholders.

But thankfully, Hasbro didn't actually do the rules changes and other details of the Revision. They just made it happen 'sooner'. The R&D team did the actual work...and they play. So are they not gamers?

 

[Desdichado]

Right. That's why I edited my post (a little, he took off just before the hammer came down, so there's very little difference).

All kinds of difference. Monte wasn't shown the door, he left because he wanted to go do other things, which he is currently doing. You're saying essentially that his bitterness about his employment history is coloring his opinion, but there's not a shred of truth to that.

I would. It's a book he wants to sell, and it will sell better if the PH is out of the way. I'm not saying he has a grand scheme to conquer the PH. I'm just saying the possiblity exists that he's financially and/or professionally biased, so I'm not interested in his opinion.

Why do you think it will sell better if the PHB3.5 is out of the way? As I said earlier (which you cut from my quote) I don't see how they're filling the same market niche at all. AU is for people who want to play something different, with different races, different feats, different classes and different magic systems. PHB3.5 is for people who want to play the same thing, only "improved". Of course, all the debate we're seeing just shows to go you that whether or not it's an improvement is not a given, but it hardly aims for the same market as AU.

 

[rushlight]

Even though I realize that the original poster is just fishing with Troll food, I don't really have much else better to do right now. So why not toss a few bags myself?

So, why is it that people who don't like 3.5 (or anything in general, there's tons of whiny protestors) feel a need to convince others not to purchase? Is it some self-righteous calling? Obsessive negativity? A desire to keep things the way YOU like it, and stifle any new ideas? Just trying to stir the pot some?

Oh, here's a good bit from King_Stannis:

"Yeah, he should just shut up and pay his $90 before he can have an opinion on it, right? Why rely on the review of one of the guys who actually wrote the 3rd edition anyway? "

This isn't Monte's post. Its some dude who's never seen the books. It's a review based on another review! Talk about losing something in the translation. Sure I've used reviews of movies to make a decision. But I use reviews of PEOPLE WHO WATCHED THE MOVIE. I don't listen to some chump who says, "Well, I heard reviewers say that it sucked, so dude don't watch it..." That's absurd.

Not only that, I don't listen to people who say, "Well, you shouldn't watch 'Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle' because I (the reviewer) once met Drew Barrymore and she wouldn't give me her number so I'll never watch her movies again, and they all suck, and you shouldn't either." The original poster tossed insults, and made vague statements about books he hasn't read. I don't consider him a "trusted" source. I don't even really think he took a friendly approach to this. He doesn't like it - based on second hand information. And he's trying to persuade others to feel like he does. I dunno why - see above for possible theories.

 

[kreynolds]

All kinds of difference. Monte wasn't shown the door, he left because he wanted to go do other things, which he is currently doing.

Nah, very little difference. He walked out the door, and it was slammed shut hard behind him. That's the difference, and it's a big one.

You're saying essentially that his bitterness about his employment history is coloring his opinion, but there's not a shred of truth to that.

I disagree. I think it's quite possible.

Why do you think it will sell better if the PHB3.5 is out of the way?

Player's Handbook. A Variant Player's Handbook.

Say you and I both sell eggs, yours white and mine brown. You've been doing this a lot longer than I have. I'm just a newbie. I tell people publicly that white eggs suck. What's that leave? Brown eggs.

Now, again, my eggs are brown and yours are white. Do we fill the same market? Yes. Why? When it comes down to it, they're eggs.

...

As I said earlier (which you cut from my quote)...

Because I didn't find it relevant. They're eggs.

 

[Aaron L]

Ninja Scroll?

 

[Grog]

I won't be buying 3.5 because $90 (or even $60) is way too much to pay for a bunch of Andy Collins' house rules.

Those of you who are buying, however, I hope you enjoy it.

 

[Desdichado]

Nah, very little difference. He walked out the door, and it was slammed shut hard behind him. That's the difference, and it's a big one.

The door had no bearing on him. I really don't see where you're going with this.

Player's Handbook. A Variant Player's Handbook.

Say you and I both sell eggs, yours white and mine brown. You've been doing this a lot longer than I have. I'm just a newbie. I tell people publicly that white eggs suck. What's that leave? Brown eggs.

Now, again, my eggs are brown and yours are white. Do we fill the same market? Yes. Why? When it comes down to it, they're eggs.

Bad analogy. Few people or going to be on an either/or decision between those two. People who want AU want it because they want something different. People who want PHB3.5 want something that's not different, just something that's updated. If you think that those are fundamentally serving the same niche in the marketplace, I think you're flat out wrong.

 

[Emiricol]

Even though I realize that the original poster is just fishing with Troll food, I don't really have much else better to do right now. So why not toss a few bags myself?

LOL! That's a great quote