SC2.0 conversions of d20M base classes

Morgenstern said:
They wouldn't need to??? NPCs are built differently from players anyway, so the adventures are fully interchangable without modification.

That's my real problem there, actually. (And why I didn't like the NPC example, which I focused on more than the class.)

When I first heard about Spycraft II's superior NPC system, I guess I was looking for the best of both worlds - something easy to whip up, but also something that doesn't stray too far from the PC rules.

On the one hand, you can whip these guys up fast, and they scale easily. On the other hand, most don't come with class levels or "ability scores" (well they're technically 10), and I found this problem in the two new 2.0 adventures at the Living Spycraft site (meaning I'm looking at actual NPCs designed by actual Spycraft people and not just making stuff up). It's almost like 2e AD&D or C&C - and I also had a very negative reaction to Castles and Crusades.

As for the new class, I said I wasn't impressed, but at the same time, I noted that the preview isn't complete yet and I'm open to being impressed later.
 

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(Psi)SeveredHead said:
It's almost like 2e AD&D or C&C - and I also had a very negative reaction to Castles and Crusades.

The difference being that, unlike C&C, SC2 doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can use the PC rules to make a fully detailed NPC. Or you can use the quick rules.
 

Hey there,

Since I'm the author of the Back to Basics and its undergoing final review and edits right now, I'll answer any questions I can :D

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
I'm not impressed so far, although apparently not all the knacks have been written down yet. It's not going to do me much good as that class wouldn't show up in any adventures.

There are a LOT of knacks in this product. At last count, I think we have over 40. So you should have plenty of options. Of course, this was a first pass - should it prove to be successful there may be a Back to Basics II with even more knacks.

As for the class showing up in adventures, that should not be an issue in any way. This product only replaces the base classes of Spycraft with the Basic Classes of the modern SRD, so depending on what you like for your home games you can swap them freely without disrupting any other part of the system. That's what I meant by calling it a "small footprint" product. Every adventure or setting or supplement we write will work just fine with the classes found in Back to Basics - it's just another option for those of you who like a more 'generic' class design and selectable class abilities (and lots of them ;) ).

Personally I like how I can craft together a Strong/Charismatic mob boss with Fast Talk and the leadership tree and not have to dig up a supplement to find the "Mob Boss" Prestige Class.

As PBartender has noted...you can already do that using the NPC system. As Psion pointed out, you can also do it with the classic build them as PC system too. You can certainly construct a Strong/Charismatic character using Back to Basics and call him a mob boss, and he would mightily whup ass :) It's your call.

Anyway, I'm aware it's a preview, but I have to wonder how useful it'll be if it's not being supported by Crafty Games. (Any adventures, supplements, etc, will ignore the new classes.)

I'm not sure why the question of support has come up at all, since it really is a standalone piece at this time. Adventures in standard Spycraft NPC design will ignore the new classes anyway, since the NPCs have their own system entirely. Our adventures also never railroad
as to what classes the PCs play - the new Living Spycraft missions are actually opening the door for other classes to come into play later on.

As for direct company support, we will certainly address errata in the document, answer customer service questions, and produce more should the demand be high enough, the same as we would other products. Scott and I have already discussed making a few new knack trees to cover some special abilities that will be appearing in later products (such as the spellcasting rules of Spellbound) as free bits for the website. So I think it's hasty to say we're abandoning this before we even release it ;)

As for the new class, I said I wasn't impressed, but at the same time, I noted that the preview isn't complete yet and I'm open to being impressed later.

As long as you give it a fair shake once it's complete, that's all we could hope for :)
 


Now that Back to Basics is out, will it be easy to use Blood and Fists, Elements of Magic:Me and the Psychic's Handbook with Spycraft 2.0?
 

Greg K said:
Now that Back to Basics is out, will it be easy to use Blood and Fists, Elements of Magic:Me and the Psychic's Handbook with Spycraft 2.0?

Or maybe talk those publishers into releasing Spycrafted versions of the above.

Actually, I've been contemplating putting together a Blood and Fistsed version of Master of Arms.

I say we merge all rules into one, monstrous amalgam with a rules heaviness so intense that not even roleplaying can escape.
 

Greg K said:
Now that Back to Basics is out, will it be easy to use Blood and Fists, Elements of Magic:Me and the Psychic's Handbook with Spycraft 2.0?

We didn't actually convert all the d20 Modern *rules* over to 2.0 - only the classes and basic concept. Spycraft 2.0 already has its own take on martial arts which is quite different from Blood and Fists, and a conversion document for the psychic rules from Shadowforce Archer (which predate the Psychic's Handbook, IIRC).

On the magic front - The Auld Grump from here on EN World has been working on a Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth conversion for Spycraft already, so he may be able to help you out there. Alternatively, the first edition of magic supplements for 2.0, Spellbound, is going through final playtest and edits and will be in our next wave of releases.

Hope that helps!
 

I've bought it somewhat out of curiousity (and because I've got a lingering player who resists spycraft because the classes ain't flexible enough).
I probably won't use it, as I think Spycraft works just fine the way it is - but it's nice to have the option there. I can't foresee any problems with it, whether running an official adventure or making up your own stuff.
As a note, if mixing up with core Spycraft classes, these classes give up some power for some flexibility - there's no 'game-breaker' ability at 14th level for instance - and while some of the upper tier knacks are pretty hot, they're not at that level of power. I would be quite happy to mix up the classes in a game - but would be careful to make my players aware of that fact.

I like that (very much IMHO) Spycraft has picked the most pointed out benefit of D20 Modern over Spycraft and solidly kicked D20 Modern's arse, producing classes that are more interesting (though blander than the Core classes - but that's kinda the point) more diverse and more mechanically sound.

Cheers!
 



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