[SC2.0] What classes are fantasy appropriate

[Denaes]

I want to build a set of fantasy appropriate characters including types from SC2.0. I'd say to just add them to D&D, but that wouldn't mix well.

My reasoning is that D&D has some pretty wide open holes, primarily because of it's focus on combat pretty much to the exclusion of all else. The Feats are by far aligned to combat or the generic +2 to two skills. Classes are pretty much combat.

I mean, what would you be if you wanted to be a socialite or a scholar? A rogue, Bard or Wizard comes to mind. two of those have attached magic expectations and the Rogue has all sorts of combat expectations.

I'm pretty sure you just need to extract the gear benefits and choose something else to replace the Tech abilities (either a magic alternative or something else).

Books not here, so I'm not making specific notes of changes. I'll do that today or tomorrow:

* Wheelman: Definately need to change some of the techie vehicle bonuses, but most can be substituted for animals.

* Soldier: I see these as straight up Fighters of a more generic sort. Something would have to be done with the feats to make guns feats into a more archery theme.

* Intruder: Pretty much what one might envision a rogue as. I'm not sure how techie their skills/abilities get.

* Scout:This is a ranger type. Not a straight up combat mogul, but great ambushing/combat possibilities.

* Faceman:I think this class is pretty much 100% fantasy appropriate. I'll have to look into that.

Well, there are more classes, but I need to get the book. The problem with GMing Spycraft is that GMs use a different system for NPCs...well that's better for speed and ease of use, but it means I don't know the classes as well as I would in another d20 game.

I'm thinking if you made magic Feat Based, you could spice up some characters a bit and easily work some magic into existing classes. Not sure how that would work. I can see True20 as an example of a looser sort of magic.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I don't know as there are all that many holes in the d20 Fantasy market if you're taking books beyond the core three into account.

The only thing that I can see D&D lacking horribly is Social Interaction Stuff. But D&D games don't often focus on that, and so the Bard's focus on Charisma, Interaction Skills, and Interaction Magic sort of fills that niche in D&D without totally crippling the class in monster-fighting situations.

I've never liked the idea of turning Wheelmen classes into fantasy characters, myself ... "I'm the Horse Specialist". Dramatic cart chases? The occassional chariot?

The Advocate, Explorer, Faceman, Intruder, Scout, and Soldier have easy fantasy cognates. The rest ... heavy modification, and even then you're pressing it. Stuff like this is why the choice to do Genre Archetype Base Classes makes me want to chew my arm off. I wouldn't want to try to do D&D Classes in a Modern game, and vice-versa. The generic base classes of GT and D20M loan themselves so well to multiple genres.

As to magic: I think I have something that would work VERY well for SC2.0, but I'd have to find some suckers willing to playtest it before I was sure.

--fje

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, Spycraft classes are not really comparable to D&D classes - they have more skills and hit points and such than a D&D class would.

I mean, compare the Soldier in Spycraft to the Fighter. Basically the same thing. But the Soldier gets a d12 for hit points, 4 skill points per level.

Conversely, if you want to use SC for a fantasy game, you'd have to convert or come up with some sort of magic system.

 

[trancejeremy]

But if you are just looking for more core classes, I think Mongoose put out a book full of all their "Power Classes", and there are lots of books with them.

 

[Denaes]

I don't know as there are all that many holes in the d20 Fantasy market if you're taking books beyond the core three into account.

The only thing that I can see D&D lacking horribly is Social Interaction Stuff. But D&D games don't often focus on that, and so the Bard's focus on Charisma, Interaction Skills, and Interaction Magic sort of fills that niche in D&D without totally crippling the class in monster-fighting situations.

D&D is lacking quite a bit. If you don't want to play a magic user, that pretty much leaves a fighter & Rogue to cover people who are good at charming people, trickery, learning things and even then the feats suck so bad in D&D it's pretty sad trying to accomplish this.

d20 Modern does a much better approach to this with the abilities the Smart & Charismatic Heros get.

I'm not talking about D&D, like I want to make these into a D&D Classes. That would be easier to just look these guys and d20 Modern and make up new classes.

I'd want to run a fantasy game based in part off D&D & Spycraft2.0. It would be more high adventure with more competent and diverse characters.

It's more like taking Spycraft 2.0, looking at D&D and making some fantasy classes out of the existing classes.

I agree that generic classes are cool. I'd like to check out that Grim game, but my gaming store refuses to order it and it's web presences is pretty lacking other than on these forums (the Bad Axe site is pretty unimformative and they have no forums of their own or any active forums at all).

But generic classes and D&D's strengths, goals & shortcommings are another topic entirely. This is about making a SC2.0 type of fantasy game, working on a fantasy stable of characters.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Well, the BadAxe forums are really ... this forum. Ben is through regularly and answers questions, and the GTPhiles here, like myself, are usually willing to answer questions.

GT borrowed alot from SC1.0, so it shows that Ben liked alot of what he saw there. I like alot of what I see in SC2.0 right now ... just ... not all of it.

The classes are one.
The fact that they felt the need to rewrite half the d20 mechanics into THE SAME THING, but with more confusing and arcane writing, is another.

I'm honestly in the process of doing the generic classes for SC, for my own use.

I also prefer the Wealth mechanic from Modern, but that's just me. Simpler and more robust at the same time. I've even used it for Fantasy and LOVED it.

--fje

 

[Henry]

I keep saying Ben needs to start working on GT 2.0 when he gets time, to incorporate those kick-butt subsystems and feats that Spycraft 2 introduced.

As for "fantasizing" Spycraft 2, It would be almost better to use the "Generic" classes from Modern, statted out to 20 levels, and including all of their special abilities in a table full of talent trees, with requisites that would place them at about the same level as Spycraft would. This would essentially be reinventing the Grim Tales Wheel, but it doesn't require you to buy Grim Tales, because the Modern Classes are available via SRD.

 

[Denaes]

I keep saying Ben needs to start working on GT 2.0 when he gets time, to incorporate those kick-butt subsystems and feats that Spycraft 2 introduced.

I'd be interested. Hell I'm interested in GT 1.0, I just don't have any way to check it out.

As for "fantasizing" Spycraft 2, It would be almost better to use the "Generic" classes from Modern, statted out to 20 levels, and including all of their special abilities in a table full of talent trees, with requisites that would place them at about the same level as Spycraft would. This would essentially be reinventing the Grim Tales Wheel, but it doesn't require you to buy Grim Tales, because the Modern Classes are available via SRD.

IMO, Talants were pretty weak sauce in d20M. I don't know if GT made it worth while or not.

It's just as easy to make all the class abilities into feats and assign them to the appropriate categories and let the classes choose extra feats on certain levels from categories or give them a pool of Attribute specific feats to choose from.

There just wasn't a reason for d20M to have such shallow Talant choices and why they wern't avaialable as feats also.

 

[Denaes]

Change Notes:

1. I won't be using the gear system. Most likely a normal monetary system. So Gear would need to be dropped on each class or changed into something else.

2. Proficiencies would have to work a little different or clases have fewer. Taking out technological weapons really cuts the list down.

***Fantasy Warrior (Derrived from Soldier on pg49 in SC2.0)

Weapon Specialist: Big Stick uses the Caliber Gear system, a replacement would need to be chosen

***Fantasy Rider/Driver (derrived from Wheelman

This really needs to be re-thought out. You can go with the person being a rider of chariots or steam tech, but thats not really straight up fantasy. Straight up fantasy is them riding animals... so you would need to figure out how to convert the mechanic skills over to healing, caring for and training animals. It can be done and you'll end up with a kick ass <animal name> rider.

Still going at this, but on my lunch break at work now. Tonite I'll be able to make some more notes and post them.

I'm still interested in Generic Classes, but also in specific classes as well.

 

[Henry]

IMO, Talants were pretty weak sauce in d20M. I don't know if GT made it worth while or not.

It's just as easy to make all the class abilities into feats and assign them to the appropriate categories and let the classes choose extra feats on certain levels from categories or give them a pool of Attribute specific feats to choose from.

That's pretty much Talents. They're feats with a different coat of paint.

Think of it this way: Talents are more like class-specific feats. You could have feats with a requirement of "Must be level X in class Y" and you'd have the same thing. By taking class abilities and offering them in this manner, you get the same effect, and allow a player the option to choose one of several abilities for each level of his character. Grim Tales characters go up exactly like d20 Modern Characters: Talent, Feat, Talent, Feat, etc. It's just that for Grim Tales, Talents are pooled from Modern, from D&D, and from Spycraft, along with a few personally designed things by Wulf Ratbane and crew in the mix.

So, instead of Soldier gets Weapon specialization at 6th level, as in Spycraft 1, or even where Soldier gets one of about 6 abilities at 6th level as in Spycraft 2, Instead Tough character gets a whole bunch of choices, he just has to be X level to get the better choices, same as SC 2.

There are some that wouldn't fit Grim Tales, I think (like "Style over Caliber") but the martial arts, combat feats, most of the career and style feats, would fit well, I think.