SCAG Thread

[kalani]

Here's a question,

If I run a bladesinger in Out of the Abyss, and while I'm playing the mod as a home game it becomes legal can I then bring that character into expeditions?

Unfortunately no. New/Existing Characters which have been played in non-AL games are not legal for Adventurers League. As such, it would be impossible to play an AL-legal Bladesinger prior to the announcement, as Bladesingers are not yet legal in AL. If your DM allowed you to play a Bladesinger (even in an approved adventure such as Abyss) it is not an AL-Legal game, as the DM is ignoring the rules of AL.

The term "home game" has two meanings

• A private game run strictly by AL rules in which you play an Al-Legal Adventure (LMoP, HotDQ, RoT, PotA, or OotA)
• A private game which is not run by AL rules and/or playing adventures other than those listed above?

Only games which meet the first definition are AL-Legal. Characters which participate in AL-Legal home games can port those characters to any other AL-Legal game (including other AL-Legal Home/Online games, Encounters, Expeditions, or Epics).

If you play your character in a non-AL game (even once), that character is no longer valid for Adventurers League. You would need to remove all XP, treasure, downtime, renown, and other rewards earned in the non-AL game, in order to make your character AL-Legal again.

 

[CapnZapp]

(assuming SCAG is not made legal for seasons prior to Season 4)

I would have thought SCAG to be treated as a supplementary rulebook, not merely options for a given season/origin.

That is, more like a "PHB2" than a "Out of the Abyss Companion".

 

[Tyranthraxus]

Here's a question,

If I run a bladesinger in Out of the Abyss, and while I'm playing the mod as a home game it becomes legal can I then bring that character into expeditions?

No because your original game character was not AL compliant legal. A Character cannot go from being AL Non Legal to AL Legal

My hope with the SCAG is that they actually spread out the stuff in it over multiple seasons (and dont feel the need to push it all in). So have some stuff put in for 4, some more for 5 and the rest for 6

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

My hope with the SCAG is that they actually spread out the stuff in it over multiple seasons (and dont feel the need to push it all in). So have some stuff put in for 4, some more for 5 and the rest for 6

I'm more worried about what content is going to be put behind the paywall of non-evolving con tradition, done so for no reason other than to offer a con cert at the expense of every AL player/DM who can't make the trips to cons. I don't care how long it takes to fully integrate the SCAG content, as long as all balanced materials are made available. I can accept that winged Tieflings will probably never see AL play, but hiding something like Half-elf variants behind a cert would be counterintuitive.

Whatever player option that will end up behind the paywall needs to be something that has a small impact on PC diversity. Although truthfully, con certs for player options should be limited to those that appear in books that players have no reasonable expectation of owning or having access to, like the DMG. Con certs for player options from a book that players are encouraged to buy could have negative feedback from the AL and result in fewer sales of newer releases, due to perceptions of WotC arbitrarily deciding to restrict use of certain player options for the sake of printing con certs.

But enough about that...

I picked up my book over the weekend and have consumed all of the player options. I think I have an idea as to what will be the new hotness in the world of CharOp, so none of my tables should be able to abuse their cheese. Swashbucklers shall find themselves frequently beset by creatures with tight formations. Bladesingers will eat save or suck spells. PDKs will find themselves in situations where they can't be heard well. Arcana Clerics may not ever fight any creatures that can be turned. That doesn't mean I won't let players take the spotlight from time to time, but that I know how to force the light to shine on someone else when glory hogs try to take over the adventure. It takes a munchkin to stop a munchkin...

 

[Pauper]

I agree with all that except for the part about Asmodeus. He's a LE god just like Bane who is already legal.

The problem isn't being a worshipper of Asmodeus -- that's already legal in the AL. The problem is having a character who is directly descended from Asmodeus (even if the descent is the result of a magical ritual rather than actually having Big A as a great-grandpappy).

Its a shame that who ever wrote the book didn't include Genasi. They have been an exclusive FR race since 2nd edition I think. I may be wrong on that. It may be 3rd edition.

Genasi were actually created for Planescape; they got ported in as monsters in the Realms in "Monsters of Faerun", then got added as a PC race in the 3E FR Campaign Setting. They've never been 'exclusive' to the Realms.

It should be noted that genasi characters aren't illegal in AL; they simply are restricted to being Season 2 characters under the current AL storyline season rules.

--
Pauper

 

[sigfile]

The only two elements (besides the winged Tieflings, yes) that really leapt off the page at me as potential concerns for AL were the universal paladin virtues and the Inheritor background's feature. The rest of the features and options look like a lot of fun.

I can only hope that most of the book gets global (evergreen) approval.

Requiring certificate access for some of the options that are supposed to be rare wouldn't overly concern me. There aren't a lot of effective ways of keeping supposedly rare options rare.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

The only two elements (besides the winged Tieflings, yes) that really leapt off the page at me as potential concerns for AL were the universal paladin virtues and the Inheritor background's feature. The rest of the features and options look like a lot of fun.

I can only hope that most of the book gets global (evergreen) approval.

Requiring certificate access for some of the options that are supposed to be rare wouldn't overly concern me. There aren't a lot of effective ways of keeping supposedly rare options rare.

I need to go doublecheck the Inheritor background for that one. I can see the Paladin tenets being contradictory to those who don't go LG. Upholding the tenets laid out in your oath should be the only requirement, as those are generally more alignment-flexible.

As for keeping rare player options rare, it only works so far within the framework of OP. Until Season 3, I had more dragonborn and tieflings at my FLGS' tables than humans. I think a general rule of thumb needs to be in place to determine if something becomes a certed player option. If its stats appear in a book meant for player consumption, then it's ineligible for being certed. Most AL players who buy a player options book are expecting to be allowed to use nearly all of it at some point.

On the flipside, by picking the certed player options from books meant for DMs, you actually encourage sales of DM materials and may convert some players to DMs in the process. Players who have the certs for Death Domain, Aasimar, Oathbreaker, and Eladrin (the latter two not available yet) now have an incentive to purchase the DMG, as it contains the pertinent player options. At that point, the book no longer serves the sole AL player-related function of magic item catalog. After reading through the crunchy bits enough times, the player will be invariably faced with a decision: read the DM stuff or put the book away. Either way, WotC and your FLGS win, because they've already got your money.

 

[kalani]

I wouldn't go that far - I would however, expect to see certs which say "you can play X class or Y race, regardless of your story origin". You can still play the race/class if you choose the correct story origin, but these kinds of certs would allow for players to mix elements that are normally prohibited due to story origin, while still allowing the admins to maintain control (so as not to introduce broken combinations).

 

[Pauper]

I can only hope that most of the book gets global (evergreen) approval.

I can predict you'll get your wish, if by 'most of the book', you mean the two-thirds of the book that is basically setting material. Other than questions surrounding the Arcane domain, there's not much preventing people who have this book from choosing a deity from it rather than the PH, while allowing players who only have the PH to choose from that list instead. There's even some interesting consideration of why an otherwise 'heroic' character might choose to worship Asmodeus or Cyric, for instance, that might inspire some cool RP builds.

As for the one-third of the book that contains the race/class/background info, it's hard to say. It wouldn't surprise me if a few things were disallowed but later certed (both to allow the admins to keep an eye on particular mechanics without overwhelming the campaign as well as to allow for some 'reward' options for people who volunteer and/or attend cons). I can honestly see arguments in favor of 'only legal for season 4 and beyond' as well as 'legal for all AL seasons'.

Take the svirfneblin, for example. As of this moment, the deep gnome is legal in AL as a Season 2 (Elemental Evil) character option. From a mechanical standpoint, that's not terribly restrictive, as the only Season 1 and Season 3 exclusive options appear to be background options (though given that Season 3 is the 'Underdark' season with appropriate backgrounds, some RPers might be inclined to disagree with me). If SCAG is approved as a 'Season 4+' resource, then deep gnomes have to keep track of whether they were created under EE or SCAG rules, not because the race is different (as far as I can tell the racial benefits are identical for the two versions), but because the different seasons unlock different character options -- a Season 4 deep gnome can't take Season 2 spells, for instance, and likewise a Season 2 deep gnome can't take a Season 4 sub-class. That might seem confusing, but consider the alternative -- if SCAG rules items are declared legal for all seasons, then a Season 2 deep gnome can take SCAG character options, but that doesn't mean a SCAG deep gnome created in Season 4 can take Elemental Evil character options. (You choose your storyline season, and then determine your legal rules sources from that, so just because SCAG might be a legal rules source for any storyline season, that doesn't mean that a character created in a season where SCAG can be used can use other rules sources that aren't available to that storyline season.) That, arguably, is even more confusing.

I don't envy the admins the task they've put before themselves here, and it doesn't surprise me that they're taking their time to get the announcement right before making it.

--
Pauper

 

[sigfile]

I need to go doublecheck the Inheritor background for that one.

As did I. Both the Inheritor's feature ("Inheritance") and its starting equipment ("any items with which you are proficient") are problems.