Scary monks! [3.5]

[Tharizdun]

I think he is comparing just a sword (medium weapon) and shield. In a previous post he was comparing a Greatsword user, not in this post. Besides, ever hear of Monkey Grip?

Yes I have, but this feat is not in any of the 3.5 CRBs
The question that we should put to WotC is if the SatF, ToB, DotF, etc can still be used with 3.5, or if that which is not been copied / used in the 3.5 CRB is not allowed. --who knows how long it'll take them to produce web enhancements.... :-(

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

As for not being great in combat... Isn't that the balancing factor for having so many special abilities, great saves, spell resistance?
I don't know how far this change will swing the balance, but I don't think they should ever be able to hold their own against the "warrior" classes in a stand-up fight.

Why not? A monk is an unarmed warrior with fewer hit points.

In any event a monk is supposed to be mobile - you can't use Spring Attack with your advanced speed and still use Flurry of Blows.

Personally if I find a problem with that I'll ditch SR and several random ki abilities.

 

[ForceUser]

And since Monks now only lose all of the Flurry of Blows attack penalty at 9th level, and get an extra attack at their highest BAB at 11th, this change doesn't really do that much to stop them from "blossoming" late, does it?

As for not being great in combat... Isn't that the balancing factor for having so many special abilities, great saves, spell resistance?
I don't know how far this change will swing the balance, but I don't think they should ever be able to hold their own against the "warrior" classes in a stand-up fight.

Oh, sure, I agree. But at least now they get magic fists at 4th level instead of 9th, which is about when the other melee classes are buying or finding their first magic weapons. Also, now they have other special ability options instead of flurry of misses/stunning fist. I rather like the idea of a low level monk grappling foes vice flurry of misses.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Consider the kinds of tools that are used by construction workers to tear down buildings. I don't see a lot of sharp instruments there.

No, but instruments which rely more upon their mass than anything else, I'd warrant (although I see your point)

Cheers

 

[Lord Rasputin]

Why not? A monk is an unarmed warrior with fewer hit points.

In any event a monk is supposed to be mobile - you can't use Spring Attack with your advanced speed and still use Flurry of Blows.

Personally if I find a problem with that I'll ditch SR and several random ki abilities.

While Spring Attack looks to be a natural for a monk, the loss of Flurry of Blows keeps it from being so. Especially with the new, improved Flurry.

Also, don't forget that a monk is basically one feat short of the other classes, since he pretty much must take Weapon Finesse at 3rd level to use his unarmed attacks with any chance of success.

 

[Technik4]

Also, don't forget that a monk is basically one feat short of the other classes, since he pretty much must take Weapon Finesse at 3rd level to use his unarmed attacks with any chance of success

Unless its a strength-based monk, a monk with balanced strength and dexterity, or a monk with a difference in ability mods of Strength and Dexterity of less than 2. Hmm, that may end up being quite a few monks, especially if they aren't point bought.

Technik

 

[drnuncheon]

Also, don't forget that a monk is basically one feat short of the other classes, since he pretty much must take Weapon Finesse at 3rd level to use his unarmed attacks with any chance of success.

Er...only if his dex is significantly higher than his strength.

J
...who's seen a rather nasty half-orc monk...

 

[Gizzard]

Ah, the first Monk Sucks / Monk Rules thread of 3.5E. The debate continues.... ;-)

As for not being great in combat... Isn't that the balancing factor for having so many special abilities, great saves, spell resistance?

The special abilities were not all that special and the Monk was straightjacketed into them. While the Fighter could choose the Feats that have proven to be uber level after level, the Monk could ... um ... Deflect Arrows and .... um ... be immune to disease? The Saves were nice, though a point or three of superiority over other classes isn't as continuously useful as being able to fight well - ie, you save once or twice a combat, you swing every round. SR was way too high a level to be useful to most Monks.

Er...only if his dex is significantly higher than his strength.

I think this was the biggest sign to me that the Monk was screwed up. The Monk's class attributes were Wisdom and DEX, but some people championed the idea that a high STR Monk was the way to go. Personally, I couldn't believe that such a build would be better than a similar Fighter - after all you degrade all your DEX based class abilities in order to do more damage. Why not just be a Fighter where you can really focus on STR and not worry about DEX?

-edit-
clarified tense to refer to 3E Monk only

 

[MarauderX]

Er...only if his dex is significantly higher than his strength.

J
...who's seen a rather nasty half-orc monk...

There are a few things wrong with this type of monk build, as evidenced here. Basically, if you go the Str route, your AC drops too low to protect the d8 per level of HP you get.

I was going to go with a straight monk halfling when I started (using 3.0), but changed my mind quickly so that I could acquire more feats. At fourth level I went with a Fighter2/Monk2 for the HP and feats to stay alive.

Another weakness with the monk, in 3.0 or what I saw in 3.5, is that he needs to sink ability points into his Wis although he is a physical character, and values Dex next, leaving little for Str.
I think monks would be all-stars at grappling, disarming and tripping, but as they are all Str based they won't stand much of a chance versus the other melee types. Doesn't make sense IMO that the judo master wouldn't be better at throwing someone to the ground than a barbarian.

 

[Destil]

Er...only if his dex is significantly higher than his strength.

J
...who's seen a rather nasty half-orc monk...

This is my first 3eR PC, built off the default array. I may end up rolling or using a higher point-buy for stats. I'll find out when I find a chance to play and not DM

Half Orc Monk 1
Str 17 (15+2)
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 8 (10-2)
Wis 14
Cha 6 (8-2)

Attack:
Quarterstaff +3 (1d6+4)
Full Attack [flurry]:
Quartesstaff +1/+1 (1d6+4)

Feat: Power Attack