Schools of Magic, Bardic Colleges, and What Those Terms Actually Mean

Aaron L

Hero
OK, so this is a major pet peeve of mine, and I just wanted to know if anyone else gets as annoyed as I do from people totally misunderstanding and misusing these terms... and maybe I can try to explain what the terms actually mean to anyone who doesn't know. I know this is pedantic, but I can't help it; people really should understand where words come from and what their original meanings are, before terms lose all meaning through misunderstanding, otherwise language is meaningless.

So many people, both online and off, seem to think that Schools of Magic are actually learning institutions that teach magic, as in the modern English use of the word "school," and that Bardic Colleges are actual places where Bards go for higher education, again as in the modern use of the term "college." Very few people seem to understand what the words school and college actually mean in the original, classical sense, the sense they were originally intended as their use in D&D.

The term "school" in the sense of Schools of Magic means a grouping of similar things, as in a school of fish. Likewise, "college" means an association of like-minded people, a society, from the same root as collegial and colleague. The term Schola meant an organized unit of Roman Imperial servants or soldiers, such as the Scholae Palatinae being a unit of Imperial Guards (see Wikipedia for more information.) Likewise, a Collegium was "any association in ancient Rome with a legal personality." (again from Wikipedia) almost in the modern use of the term corporation, an association of colleagues with a united profession, goal, or duty.

The College of Pontiffs was the professional association of those who held the office of priest of one of the Roman gods (the Roman priesthoods were government appointed offices, and the priests served a term of office before moving on; being a Roman priest was not a lifetime religious commitment.)

The Bardic Colleges were originally, in 1st Edition, professional associations of Bards of similar level, and as a Bard progressed through the levels he would graduate from lower Colleges to higher. Now, in 5th Edition, the Bardic Colleges are professional associations of Bards with similar preferred styles of entertainment and skills; Bards who want to learn to fight well don't go to an educational institution called the "College of Valor" to learn to be a warrior-like Bard, it's the other way around; Bards with a martial mindset and warrior skills they learned from their mentors join a loose professional association called the College of Valor.

This is just something that sticks in my mind, and has ever since I read years ago in Forgotten Realms books about how the Harpers were "reestablishing the Bardic Colleges" like Fochlucan and Ollamn. And I thought "they can't be serious, can they? That was just a joke, right? They can't actually believe the names of the 1st Edition Bardic Colleges actually represented physical Bard Universities (BU!) where people wen't to learn to be Bards, can they?!!" But yes, apparently the people writing the actual D&D setting books didn't have the first clue what the term Bardic College actually meant, and actually believed that Bardic Colleges were Bard Universities.

This is why I sometimes get annoyed with the ways D&D has evolved; instead of being a game inspired by ancient legends, mythology, fantasy, and pulp Weird Fiction, D&D has instead, in many ways, become something of a rootless, unanchored mess, and as a result people don't have any understanding of where the references and terms used in the game originally came from, or what they even mean, because the only thing D&D refers back to is earlier ideas from itself, like a snake eating its own tail. How many D&D players have actually read Michael Morcock to understand where the concept of Alignment comes from? How many have read Jack Vance and have any idea where the idea "Vancian Magic" came from?


This isn't meant to be mean-spirited or to belittle players who don't know these things; in fact, it's my hope that it would inspire them to look into this stuff and read and discover things they don't know. I just get so very frustrated and disheartened by people misusing concepts and terms because they have never read or been at all exposed to classical mythology and classic literature (and the not-so-classic but still wonderful pulp fiction) that served as the basic roots of D&D, and so don't understand the deeper meanings, or even the basic ideas, behind so many of the terms and concepts behind so may game elements. It's extremely sad to me.

We should try to start up some kind of reading and discussion club that goes back to read and evaluate the kinds of stories that inspired D&D, the pulps, the Howard, Lovecraft, Moorcock, Anderson, Leiber, Vance... all the stories from the list in Appendix N of the 1st Edition DMG, and all the other associated literature of that style. This is the original roots of D&D, and going back to read it would be invaluable knowledge for players. I remember reading an article series on the TOR website back a few years ago leading up to the release of 5E where they did just that, going through some books from Appendix N, and I think an expanded version of that idea would be fantastic for ENWorld to do.

In fact, one of the big reasons why I loved 5E so much when I first read the PHB was the sense I got that it was really going back to more of the style of those kinds of stories, with the lower Armor Classes, lower attack bonuses, and reduced spell progressions with more reliance on less powerful cantrips, giving the game more of a gritty feel.

Well, this post ranged farther than I had intended, but it still all ties together with my original point; I really think people should read the original stories and history D&D came from and try to understand the original meanings of the terms and concepts found in the game, because too many of the terms have become so unmoored from their origins that, in the minds of too many players, they are nothing but meaningless game terms with no ties to anything else, when in reality these terms and concepts have deep mythological and literary roots that really should be understood and appreciated.

Sorry for rambling.
 

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Totally feel this, too. I have a player that goes up to every bard and asks “what’s your college?” and that just gets on my nerves. He usual gets a snarky response like “School of Hard Knocks” or something like that. It’s part of a pattern of weird questions to NPCs from him, and all of them are slowly driving me mad. Like, who asks a random butler apropos of nothing "how long have you worked here?"

Those sorts of game-term questions bug me. It's like going up to a stranger and asking them what they're highest level of education is?

I’m fine with people not knowing their history of D&D, though. The game has come a long ways since those early days, and heck, Appendix N (as much as I love many of the works within), was a long time ago and fantasy has grown and changed vastly in the decades that followed. I’m not going to judge someone for not knowing that Ioun stones were originally IOUN stones in Jack Vance’s writings. It's not like I knew that sort of thing when I first started playing, either.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Words mean what they're used to mean. That is all they ever mean. Pedantry is wholly futile.

That said, the context of the class writeups and how the words are used in the dnd 5e books should make it pretty obvious that they refer to types of wizardry, and types of bardery, not to distinct institutions within the world. If a player is mistaken about that, trying to lecture them about classical etymology seems like a completely backward solution to that.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
Words mean what they're used to mean. That is all they ever mean. Pedantry is wholly futile.

That said, the context of the class writeups and how the words are used in the dnd 5e books should make it pretty obvious that they refer to types of wizardry, and types of bardery, not to distinct institutions within the world. If a player is mistaken about that, trying to lecture them about classical etymology seems like a completely backward solution to that.
What physician non-domesticate canine said. Harrumph.
As to the OP. Never came across the people he talking about. And the level names for pcs were a joke.
 

Celebrim

Legend
This problem is not remotely unique to people reading terms from AD&D. Much of modern discourse devolves from people regularly using terms with no concrete idea in their head what they mean, or hearing bits of academic technical jargon which are compound words or phrases and assuming that since they are familiar with the words that make up that jargon that they understand what they mean without having to read a book about it.

Cases is point: Identity, Tolerance, Left, Right, Liberal, Conservative, Liberalism, Socialism, Fascism, Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism (Hint: Not the same thing is the prior phrase.), Capitalism, Critical Theory, Postmodernism, Neo-Liberalism, Alt Right, Feminism, Political Correctness, Social Justice

I could go on but I'm already almost certainly inviting someone to political debate that I really don't want to have. My point being, regardless of your stand on those things, many people on both sides talk about them without any idea what they actually mean completely oblivious to the fact that they can't actually put into words the central idea that they are arguing about - much less that if they did, it would probably be different words than the person that they are arguing with. Many arguments could be avoided if people refused to use words that they couldn't define.

Similar things happen when we argue about gaming. Out come terms like "agency", "sandbox", "adventure path", "gamist", "cinematic", "rules light", "narrativist", "Indy", "gritty" and so forth and I don't know how many times on the boards it has happened that the person I'm arguing with has a very different take on what those words mean than I do. In the case of gaming jargon, there is at least the excuse that there is no definitive dictionary of gaming jargon, and common uses have evolved in different ways. Heck, I'm sure I'm quite guilty on this myself, as the way I define "cinematic" is very different than the way I think the originator of the term used it, based on my own false assumption that since I knew the word that I understood the meaning.

I often wish that when people invented these jargon terms they instead of repurposing a word or inventing a compound word, they used some nonsense word like "Varple" or "Zaroomni" instead. That way misunderstandings would be harder, since no one would assume on seeing the word that they knew what it meant and would instead have recourse to ask or seek a dictionary somewhere.

But in the case of the words "school" and "college", I blame this on our deficient educational system and the general dumbing down of vocabulary as neither of those are jargon terms and Gygax was using them in a very ordinary sense - dictionary definition #2, as it were. Granted, it might be better if in English ever sense of word had a very different sound and spelling for it, so that for the dictionary definition #1 of college we used 'College' and for #2 we used a more Latin like Colleagium or some such, but alas no living language is nearly so orderly. And granted, I have a bit more sympathy for someone mistaking the usage of a word in first sense rather than the second, than I have for someone that uses a word with no sense attached to it at all or who uses the same word in different senses and rapidly switches between them without realizing it - such as the person who argued that 'liberals' were more generous people because that's what 'liberal' means. (Again, I don't want to argue that, just suggesting that is not proof of the thesis.)

I had a realization of just how disorderly and messy language actually is as my kids were learning to talk. It's amazing anyone ever picks it up. So to that end, while a pedagogue like me can very much sympathize with the feelings behind your rant, I also fully sympathize with the person who read "College of Bards" and thought, "It's a building where bards learn bard stuff from bard professors."

I also have come to the conclusion watching fantasy evolve that there is only a certain distance into the past an average person is able to reach, and as time passes our sense of what is ancient and fantastic but also comprehensible and relatable progresses forward as well. For example, most people watching a fantasy setting like those of the Disney 'princess' fairy tales will have the impression that they are medieval, but in fact most of them are set sometime in the 19th century based on costumes, architecture, technology, and so forth. I've long observed that D&D 'big cities' have more in common with Dickenson's London than they do with 13th century London or Paris. Or notion of catacombs beneath those cities has more in common with 18th or 19th century Paris than Medieval Paris. I don't think I've ever played in a D&D setting - including my own despite having studied Medieval History in college - which is really gritty medievalism and not Early Modern sans gunpowder and steam engines.

But even that seems to be evolving as more and more settings start to look like the late 19th century rather than the early 19th, or even early 20th century - just with magic in place of Electricity. I wonder whether in 100 years, it will be normal for fantasy stories to feature computers and mass communication as the 20th century begins to appear to the average person to be the remote and barely understood past, and the language and social structure of say 18th Century Europe becomes as unfathomable as the language and mindset of the 13th century is to almost everyone today.
 
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I can't say this is a problem I've run in to. Is it possible this is largely a 5e thing? Something about the way this edition uses those terms?

Like, who asks a random butler apropos of nothing "how long have you worked here?"

From my limited experience running a cash register back in the day, that's not a very unusual question. Interfacing with the public, you will hear a lot of inane stuff. Some people have an uncontrollable urge to fill silence. Some people are terrible at small talk. Lots of people fall into both categories. And you call it a win any time the questions aren't demeaning your job or how you look.
 

I

Immortal Sun

Guest
My mother was an english major and my father was a classical history major.

I feel your pain.

I'm fine with the "modern" interpretation, as long as DMs aren't using it as a ham-fisted way to beat players over the head with "NO YOU CAN'T LEVEL UP YET!!!" Which I've seen once in a while. Training is cool, as long as it is reasonably available.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
I fully understand the origins of the terminology.

IMHO, however, I see nothing wrong with spells from the school of evocation actually being taught in a place called the School of Evocation.

I also see no problem (in campaign) with Magister Milf’s School of Sorcery teaching all kinds of wizardly schools or having courses on “How to pick your Patron” to prospective warlocks.

Why? Because people weird languages. “Soda” becomes “pop”. “Barbecue” mutates from technique to just a couple of particular dishes. “Run” accretes definition after definition after definition.
 
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jasper

Rotten DM
Speaking run, I have to run off to the bathroom due to the runs from due to Danny's bad bar-B-Q. I will pop right back.
 


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