Sci-Fi Channel finally discusses Farscape’s cancellation

[Mistwell]

And a lot of that stuff is played during irregular hours.
When I turn it on at random, its something I have zero desire to watch about 90% of the time.

Get Tivo. Trust me, it will change your life, and is worth every dime.

 

[Whodat]

At the risk of starting a firestorm, I have to take issue with this:

As serialization increases, popularity (in terms of ratings) decreased with this show. It is pretty much a direct correlation, and would make a lovely graph. Serlization did not make this show popular, it hurt it in every way that counts.

I’m sorry, but your argument that serialization caused people to turn away from Farscape may have some validity, but it was only one link in a chain of reasons why the show failed. By your argument, daytime soap operas (such as General Hospital, et al) could never have become staples of daytime television viewing. They are the living embodiment of serialized viewing – and I defy you to pick up on any one of them without wading through several episodes, and trying to follow along with the characters and story.

If you want to point to the REAL reasons viewership dropped, just look back at how Sci-Fi handled the show. Mismanagement had a lot more to do with Farscape’s demise than complicated storylines.

1) In the middle of season three, the show takes a 4-month hiatus. At which time Sci-Fi puts another show on in its timeslot. When season four rolls around, Sci-Fi this time puts the show into a 6-month hiatus in the middle of the season. At which time Sci-Fi once again puts another show on in its place. And for those of you playing along at home, you’ll note that Farscape was on hiatus during the latest September/October sweep period. No Farscape viewership during these crucial months equals lower overall Nielsen ratings.

2) There were no repeats when Farscape went on hiatus. Think about that. Sci-Fi basically runs the episodes once, and then drops the show after the new episodes run out. When Sci-Fi ran that 11-episode marathon this Christmas Eve, those were the first Farscape episodes we had seen since August! Should any new viewers try to pick the show up, they will have no idea about the show’s history, who’s who, or any of the character’s back-stories unless they cram in as much of that marathon as possible. This a pretty risky maneuver even when dealing with established fans.

3) Season 4 was moved from Sci-Fi’s primetime lineup to a later, 10 PM, timeslot. Keep in mind that Farscape is an hour-long show. This is not entirely convenient for a lot of viewers. Nor is it desirable to stay up until 11 PM to watch TV on a Friday night. Many, such as myself, have jobs, college (or have one of those “life” things). Friday and Saturday nights are generally when people like to go out, not sit at home and watch television.

4) Lastly, Sci-Fi failed to get the word out. Promotion for this show was half-hearted. Yes - they did place adds on their channel to attract the viewers who are already watching other programs, but that was the easy part. What they should have done was to place adds in TV Guide, genre magazines (like Starlog), newspapers, on and on their sister network USA Networks.

Bottom line: They weren’t making the show easy to find. They weren’t making the show easy to follow. They weren’t placing it on at a convenient time. But they were keeping the show a secret. What exactly were they expecting to happen? Wouldn’t any show have a difficult time against those obstacles? Suppose you took a wildly popular show (like Friends or Sienfeld) and placed it into a late-night timeslot on Friday with little or no publicity, then put the show into hiatus for six months at a stretch without showing repeats. Would it matter if the show was episodic or serialized? Probably not.

Farscape was doomed.

Serialization was ONE reason Farscape was hard to follow. It was not THE reason Farscape was hard to follow.

 

[Umbran]

Jordan has run into the same problem Farscape did. His sales and readership are DOWN, as serlialization has gone UP. In fact, there is even a whole other thread just about this very issue right now.

You got sales data?

Jordan is now on book 10, right? Meaning that for a novel, he's been highly serialized for... four or five books. He's been selling well enough to continue on for... four or five novels. I don't read him myself, but it seems to me that anyone who can continue to be a best seller on such a basis for four or five novels is doing something right, not wrong.

There are lots of movies that have many prior in their series. [

Start naming movie series that have more than three episodes. I doubt you'll find "lots" of them outside of anime, and not even many inside anime.

As for the evidence that as serialization increased with Farscape that viewership decreased, that requires me to go get all the ratings tracking and compare it to season serialization in summaries, a HUGE effort.

Yes, and if you hadn't made that effort, you were in no position to make the claim. As Whodat has listed, there are a number of sources of confounding bias.

However, you already have expert witness testimony from the executive herself on the issue, which should be good enough.

The executive, however, is an unreliable witness. She's got a job and a corporate policy to uphold. She's in the position of having to make an unpopular move palatable. I note that she hasn't given us the breakdown of numbers, either. If she really wanted us to see that her position were the unadulterated truth, and that this truth were visible in public data, she could quell many detractors by presenting it.

This suggests that in fact the truth is not clearly in the publicly accessible data.

 

[jdavis]

In first season?

No when the Mayor became a giant monster and they blew up the High School. The first season was pretty straight Buffy vs Vampires. It seems that killing Vampires is only a side job for her anymore.

 

[jdavis]

As serialization increases, popularity (in terms of ratings) decreased with this show. It is pretty much a direct correlation, and would make a lovely graph. Serlization did not make this show popular, it hurt it in every way that counts.

Yes and the whole first part of this thread went into how broken the ratings system was. By popularity I was talking about the huge Save Farscape movement that has erupted, I was talking about a show that has conventions and a huge following and is looking into branching out into movies and cartoons (they started looking at those possibilities a year or two ago before it got cancelled). If Stargate got cancelled would there be this kind of movement? Would people fight for the privlidge of watching John Edwards? Farscape went from the number one ranked show on Sci Fi ever to a ratings looser in under a year, in the same time all the other things that happened to the show went on (the time changes the fact that it just dissapears without warning and then reappears in a new timeslot without warning, it wasn't even on during sweeps, etc................) To say that serialization killed the show in under a year, well come on the show was on the cover TV guide and was renewed for two more seasons and then out of the blue it tanked in the ratings because it was too hard to follow, all in a six month period. There are alot of reasons the show tanked in the ratings and a lot of these were not the fault of the show, you had to use a freaking crystal ball to figure out if the show was going to be on or not, it just disappeared and reappeared, if you missed a week of the show then you may never get the chance to see it again, they didn't do reruns, they didn't show the shows on other nights or show the reruns again, they showed twice in one night then dissapeared. I've seen the same episode of Stargate 5 times since Farscape went off, and I don't even watch the show, I'm just flipping channels and there it is, the same freaking episode. Lets face it the show cost too much money so SCI FI tanked it, it happens, they could not continue the show so they tanked it, yes the show was getting harder to follow but not that hard.

Jordan has run into the same problem Farscape did. His sales and readership are DOWN, as serlialization has gone UP. In fact, there is even a whole other thread just about this very issue right now.

The man has sold 9 best sellers and is well on his way to a tenth one, all of the books are serial they tell one story. The problem with Jordan isn't that the books are too serialized if they weren't they would be stupid, he is telling a single story. Jordan's readers are dissatisfied by the quality of his books, they just are not as good as they used to and the story doesn't seem to move along that much anymore. The fact that he is telling a story instead of a group of unrelated tales has nothing to do with that. How can you say that Jordan's books have become more serialized, he is telling a story, he has a lways been telling a single story with lots of characters. It's not like the last five books were unrelated to the first five, they are the same exact story with the same exact characters, of course it's serialized. If Jordan was writting books of the same quality as the first books not as many people would be complaining, and lets not forget he is still selling these books by the millions.

On to the Sci Fi channel: I looked through the list and it didn't impress me all that much, I mean yea maybe they do show a good show here and there but they show Twilight zone 20 something times in a week, or maybe they are trying to drag me in by showing both Aligator 1 and Aligator 2? This is a fairly low budget channel that is trying to get by on B movies and old reruns, they mix in some new shows to try to keep it fresh but lets face it they just are not trying as hard as they used to. The neat reruns of my youth are getting old. I don't want to watch The Running Man again, and their big draw show is Crossing Over with John Edwards? I'm suprised they haven't tried to pick up Andromeda reruns or Conan the series or any of the other Hercules and Zena wannabe shows that sprung up (and some of those shows I watch and think are fun but they are cheap, they have to be in order to get made and sold). I tried to watch the Taken miniseries but it was just painful to watch. The new Dream Team show scares me it looks so bad. I can't help it I have seen all the Space Above and Beyond reruns I can stomach and I never liked Dark Shadows (a serialized show, go figure). I want them to do good I am rooting for them but they keep shooting themselves in the foot.

The only thing I will say about Stargate SG1 is that it reminds me of the shows that were put out after Hercules and Zena went off, some of them I admit to watching. I didn't care for the concept of the movie and a series based on it didn't get me going. I have given it several tries. As far as it looking cheap all TV sci fi tends to have that problem, I just prefer the costumes and sets of Farscape and I love the aliens in Farscape, they are more than a guy with a symbol lumped in his forehead. That is 100% a matter of preference and personal opinon and has no basis on fact, although you can find out how much it takes to make a episode of each. I'm sure that alot of people like Stargate SG1 but I doubt it generates the rabid fanbase that Farscape does.

Next topic: What did you expect the Sci Fi executive to say, she had to make a statement to try and smooth over all these rabid fans which are the base audience that the channel is shooting for, she couldn't say sorry your favorite show cost too much money so we are dumping it for shows that cost little or no money to make, but enjoy "The Dreamteam with Annabelle and Michael" anyway. There is a reason they have kept their mouths closed for all these months, they are hoping this will all die down, I doubt they expected all that happened when Farscape was cancelled.

 

[Storm Raven]

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you. I watched Farscape from the beginning, then stopped, then tried to jump back in. Despite having watched the first couple of seasons, I was totally lost. I had no idea what was going on in the new episodes. None. They bore no resemblance to my prior two seasons of the show.

So, you skipped an entire season's worth of episodes and you are wondering why it wasn't identical to when you watched the show? heck, the difference between the current season of Farscape and season two is less than the difference between seasons 1 and 3 of Stargate. Shows build on themselves, in this case, you expectations (Farscape would be the same now as it was a season ago) probably made the show more difficult for you than coming into the show cold would have been.

I jumped into Stargate FAR into it (having never had Showtime). I had no trouble picking it up. None. With the exception of a few things here and there, it all made sense to me.

Uh-huh. I tried to jump into it in about season 4 or so without having seen it before and it made no sense at all. Basic questions like "what is a jaffa"" "Who are the Tok'Ra"? "Who are the Asgard"? were among the annoyances. I went back and got hold of the previous episodes (and have been wathcing them in reruns) and now it makes sense. I wonder how "FAR" the show was along before you jumped in.

Others mentioned ER, the Practice, and related popular shows - bullcrap. You can jump into those shows at almost any time without trouble. The most you need is a couple of recaps.

Which is all you need for Farscape. Saying that these shows are different in tenor is being willfully ignorant of the facts.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Do brains come with that sarcasm? Or does it only engage on ocassion?

ER is nothing like say Babylon5 or Farscape. The level of detail in plot is much more shallow and there is much more stuff happening in say ER that is specific to only that episode. On the other hand I have watched Bab5 episodes that were 100% based on previous episode info to the point that someone who does not watch the show is asking me questions that often take multi-minute answers repeatedly.

You mean like that terribly unsuccessful hospital show NBC tried to run a few years back, ER?
[/sarcasm]

Haven't television dramas become more seriel over the past 15 years? What about shows like 24?

 

[jdavis]

Do brains come with that sarcasm? Or does it only engage on ocassion?

ER is nothing like say Babylon5 or Farscape. The level of detail in plot is much more shallow and there is much more stuff happening in say ER that is specific to only that episode. On the other hand I have watched Bab5 episodes that were 100% based on previous episode info to the point that someone who does not watch the show is asking me questions that often take multi-minute answers repeatedly.

ER is alot like Babylon 5 or Farscape, it is a show that builds on you getting to know the characters and it tells the story of their lives, the same people don't role in on the ambulances every show but they do have plots that run through the shows. Yes Farscape and Babalyon 5 were more in depth plot wise but the fact that they were more in depth doesn't make them different just more in depth. In general Science Fiction shows are more in depth, even the Hercules and Zena shows had a depth to the plots in them, Andromeda has a underlying plot that is hard to follow if you just occasionally watch, but Hill Street Blues had a underlying storyline too that was hard to follow it was just not the only thing going on in the show. Try watching the X-Files movie if your not a X-Files fan, but you can watch a episode of the X-Files and get it, even the ones that dealt with a ongoing plotline. Science Fiction shows get a little more in depth but that's normally what fans want, they don't like shows that are watered down for the masses, but the formula is basically the same for the layout of a one hour drama. That's why shows start out with little blurbs like "previously on ________", so people can get enough information to keep up even if they didn't see the last episode.

 

[Mistwell]

I think I am done with the hostility I have encountered in this thread.

I liked Farscape. However, I felt it had become to serialized. The biggest evidence of this for ME was the fact that I tried to watch several of the new episodes and simply could not figure out what was going on. That was enough evidence for me that the show was too serialized.

I think the bias in this thread has overwhelmed it. If people cannot admit that Farscape is more difficult to get in to than ER or Friends, they have gone off the deep end in their support for Farscape to the point they can no longer see reality. That debate is not worth having. The sky IS blue.

As for Stargate, I think people have no clue just how much of a massive fan base is behind that show. I personally believe it is a far larger fanbase than Farscape. You may not like the show, but I don't think you should speak to it's fan support without finding out a bit about it first. Insulting it by comparing it to inexpensive shows like Xena (no "Z" by the way) is unecessary and just goes to show more bias on the issue. People have lost their perspective.

I also personally think Stargate it is a lot easier to jump in to. I tried jumping into Farscape and Stargate around the same time - I suceeded with Stargate, and failed with Farscape. That's evidence enough for me.

I fully expect that if there is ever a fan effort for Stargate to save that show, that those fans cannot call on Farscape fans to help them out. This despite the fact that Farscape fans called on Stargate fans to help them out, and this Stargate fan contributed $25 to the Farscape effort despite not watching the show anymore.

I'm done with this thread though. If honest discussion cannot be had without anger and insults being directed at any dissenting voice, it isn't worth it. And I'm sure everything I just wrote will be angrily and insultingly denied

 

[Mallus]

Do brains come with that sarcasm? Or does it only engage on ocassion?

ER is nothing like say Babylon5 or Farscape. The level of detail in plot is much more shallow and there is much more stuff happening in say ER that is specific to only that episode.

Temper, temper... {And to answer your question, my friends have been arguing that one for years...}

jdavis said just about everything I wanted to, but let me add...

I didn't say that Farscape or B5 where identical in structure to shows like ER. I meant that ER was a servicable example of a popular mainstream show that wasn't comprised entirely of self-contained stand-alone episodes.

Whether a show is serial or not isn't a simple yes/no, a binary state. Just because ER isn't B5 {which was described by its creator as a "5 year long miniseries} doesn't mean it ER isn't serial --you admit as much in your post. Its a question of degree.

As I see it, on the seriality scale from greatest to least: B5, Farscape, 24, ER......... old pre-80's dramas like The Rockford Files {an excellent show, BTW}.

jdavis... you're absolutely right saying SF/F fans want long in-depth epicly proportioned storylines {and there are a number of reasons for this. My favorite is that long storylines w/several recurring elements help make the fictional universe more concrete}. B5 was a huge success among the hardcore SF audience. Fantasy novels often come in huge multivolume cycles.
While theres always a place for stand-alone works in these genres, how can you deny that there's a demand for long arc pieces?