SCOOP! Wizards to release 3E Draconomicon

[Psion]

The first Yuan-ti is from Savage Species. The second is from Races of Faerun. RoF is the first major release to show the results of WoTC gutting their in-house art department.

You realize, of course, that the second picture is by Dennis Cramer; while I agree that his stuff is not my cuppa, he was on staff before the gutting of the staff, and has stuff in MMII which came out long before Savage Species.

As for the "Quality Art" issue... it's up to you to determine your criteria for valuing a product, but I personally think you put way too much emphasis on style over substance. That said, there are some wonderful lookng third party products out there. Andy Brase has done some wonderful work for FFG, Privateer's Monsternomicon has recieved high praise, and Green Ronin has work graced by top notch artists such as Stephanie Law, rk post, and Kieran Yanner.

 

[Harlock]

Maybe I'm odd, but judging from a lot of folks responses I guess I am not that weird. I remember a PH full of cheesy bad art with people slipping on banana peels, etc. I played the game anyway. I dug the good art, but I certainly didn't decide not to buy a book based on art alone. D&D is a game about the imagination. Great art is a bonus to me but when it comes game time it doesn't make a lick of difference in my game. Game time is about great stories, great roleplaying, heroic deeds that flow over a rules system that doesn't rear its ugly head. Mechanics have to flow and be sound for this to work. So game time I want mechanics I don't have to waste time deciphering and really good interaction between player's imaginations. Good art can aid that, but it certainly isn't a necessity.

Having said that, I'm glad WotC is (allegedly) coming out with a Draconomicon-type-thing. Sure, there are some Dragon products out already, but there were books on evil out too before BoVD hit. There were other "god" books out before F&P (not for FR of course), and maybe this books will be specific or geared toward FR of Greyhawk. Maybe they are timing it to run around the release of DL? I do not think WotC putting out a book about anything (unless WotC has been down the path in 3e already) is a bad thing. More books means more options for gamers. It's a good thing folks, more chances of finding exactly what suits your style and campaign. Does the term "buyer's market" mean anything to anyone?

 

[Nightfall]

That said, there are some wonderful lookng third party products out there. Andy Brase has done some wonderful work for FFG, and Privateer and Green Ronin has work graced by top notch artists such as Stephanie Law, rk post, and Kieran Yanner.

Glad I'm not the only one that likes Kieran's work.

 

[Kai Lord]

You realize, of course, that the second picture is by Dennis Cramer; while I agree that his stuff is not my cuppa, he was on staff before the gutting of the staff, and has stuff in MMII which came out long before Savage Species.

Correct, but Cramer's doodles have always been offset by WAR and the like...until now.

As for the "Quality Art" issue... it's up to you to determine your criteria for valuing a product, but I personally think you put way too much emphasis on style over substance.

Please explain how me stating I will only spend money on a product with style and substance equates to having a position of style over substance.

 

[Kai Lord]

You care a lot more about art then I do. Heck, even my artists friends don't care so much about it.

Agreed.

In the end it's the rules I play with in my game, the art stays in the book.

In the end its where your standards lie. My presentation to content ratio is pretty demanding, but there are cases where even I will concede when the content is simply that good. Masters of the Wild is one example. 90% of the art in that book was crap, but the gaming content did indeed make up for it. But that's the exception that proves the rule.

 

[Psion]

Please explain how me stating I will only spend money on a product with style and substance equates to having a position of style over substance.

You said "I will not support a company by purchasing their products if they cut corners with the art." Your criteria, as stated, does not include substance. That is putting style over substance.

 

[Kai Lord]

You said "I will not support a company by purchasing their products if they cut corners with the art." Your criteria, as stated, does not include substance. That is putting style over substance.

No it isn't, because that is not what I said. What I did say was "Correct. But presentation and content are not mutually exclusive, and I will not support a company by purchasing their products if they cut corners with the art."

"Correct" was a direct response to Crothian stating "But a pretty book does not mean good," thereby agreeing that "style" wasn't enough, or even more important than "substance". Please don't take my statements out of context in order to counter a mischaracterization of what I said. A bit of a pet peeve of mine.

 

[johnsemlak]

You said "I will not support a company by purchasing their products if they cut corners with the art." Your criteria, as stated, does not include substance. That is putting style over substance.

Sorry to butt in, as it's not my business, perhaps, but I disagree. I think what Kai Lord is saying is that art work is one (of several) important factors when purchasing a product. He isn't neseessarly saying (in the text you just quoted) that it is the most important factor.

I certainly agree that style is important. I would add that editing, writing style, and layout certainly are factors worth considering when purchasing a product.

EDIT: Oops, Kai Lord has already spoken for himself

 

[Crothian]

I certainly agree that style is important. I would add that editing, writing style, and layout certainly are factors worth considering when purchasing a product.

Those are all very important and do go into my book purchasing descions along with the few reviews I do. However, I place a lot of emphasis on the content and what I can actually use in my game. The package and look of it all falls into second place for me.

 

[John Crichton]

For me, it has always come down to inspiration and utility.

Art is a good part of the inspiration and a book with good art really helps get my juices flowing to plan a run or make a new PC/NPC. I value art highly in the books I buy.

But that aside, I have to agree with the multiple folks above in making their WotC comments on supplements. Most folks (including many of the groups that I deal with) won't even touch 3rd party stuff if for no other reason that they don't know any better. Of course, I make my suggestions and show them things that I like that I have but that's a whole different thread.

But if WotC puts out a book for Dragons alone, the art should be good because it will be a recognizable product. Now, as for buying books with mediocre art - I have no problem with this. Since I usually do a decent chunk of research for my gaming purchases I'll know if what is in the book is any good. That is good for the utility that I'm looking for.

Now, of course, the best books cover both (Book of the Righteous, Manual of the Planes) inspiration and utility but that won't happen all the time. I always hope the WotC stuff is well balanced at the least because if there are 5 books out there on a topic, most folks are going to own the WotC version and that could affect the game I am in. At least initially.