Scott Thorne, a retailer, comments on recent events

[DEFCON 1]

Yes, I do. It is an idea utterly contemptuous of the core gamer and is worthy of our collective scorn and derision.

Please do not attempt to speak for me.

 

[lmpjr007]

Paizo's ENTIRE business model since the day it was spun off from Wizards of the Coast was premised upon selling directly to its customers to remain profitable. It is a business model that Paizo, to this day, employs to remain profitable and pursue a product release schedule that is several times larger than WotC's entire RPG and accessories line in terms of #SKUs.

I think the more interesting part to this is even with this process in place, retail stores are starting to sell more and more Paizo products. Normally stores would be against a manufacture selling direct to "their" customers, but apparently things are so "bad" at retail locations they don't care anymore. They just want the sales. Any sales they can get. I wonder when the economy turns around will stores still support Paizo and their business model?

 

[DaveMage]

But do I wish pure misery and financial doom upon a product line of randomized card packs intended to be used as part of each RPG session?

Yes, I do. It is an idea utterly contemptuous of the core gamer and is worthy of our collective scorn and derision.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Exactly.

 

[Wicht]

I think the more interesting part to this is even with this process in place, retail stores are starting to sell more and more Paizo products. Normally stores would be against a manufacture selling direct to "their" customers, but apparently things are so "bad" at retail locations they don't care anymore. They just want the sales. Any sales they can get. I wonder when the economy turns around will stores still support Paizo and their business model?

Speaking for myself as a consumer: I currently have a subscription to the APs (which gets you the PDFs and the 15% discount) and a subscription to the rulebooks (free PDF). When I have money however, I also like to purchase the other books and look first for the books in local stores (instant gratification). If the book therefore stocks the modules, flipmaps and chronicles lines, they are going to get my business. I also need a new Core Rulebook and will be looking in the local Books-A-Million for it first before turning to look online. When buying online, the fact that Paizo does not accept Paypal yet means that I am more likely to look first on Ebay as well for a store carrying the product.

All of which is to say, even subscribers buy Paizo material from local and online retailers. If it dopes indeed become the more popular game, they would be foolish not to keep it in stock.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Speaking for myself as a consumer: I currently have a subscription to the APs (which gets you the PDFs and the 15% discount) and a subscription to the rulebooks (free PDF).

+1

I too am subscribed to the AP line and the RPG line. I buy other things like the Combat Pad, the extra Magnet Pack, the Cards and occasionally a map Pack from my (relatively) LGS.

I also absolutely REFUSE to by a module in hardcopy unless I'm able to get a PDF as well. Hardcopies are great for reading in bed or on the train coming home from work. But as far as actually RUNNING an adventure give me a PDF. I can print out the maps separately, extract images (NPC's, Monsters, etc) print those images onto card stock and display them to the players.

I can copy, paste and modify stat blocks if need be. I can copy, paste and modify information about a city location, an NPC and email them to PC's if I feel that it's information that their characters need to know. There's so much that I can do with a PDF, even if it's just printing out the module and laying the pages out in a manner that easier for me to use rather than just flipping pages through the bound book.


I also run a Pathfinder Game there at least once a month. I bring this up because while I get my Pazio books directly from Pazio, my players don't. Our session right after the APG came out one of my players went right upstairs and bought her copy after flipping through mine. Another player who had ordered his from Amazon, promptly cancelled his order and bought his from the store as well after flipping through the other players copy of the APG. Pretty much after every session at least two of my players are browsing the store and picking up something. I ve had players come to the game and realize that they've forgotten their dice only to go upstairs and buy a new set of dice rather than borrow some.

Granted I still have two players who havent gotten the Core Rulebook yet (one uses Hero Lab to create and maintain his PC and the other uses the Pathfinder SRD) but hopeful if we're able to start playing more than once a month they'll cave.

 

[Dark Mistress]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if you are correct. I'm subscribed to four of Paizo's lines so that adds up to some significant change some months, especially if you consider that I'm always adding extra things to my monthly shipment. It's certainly a lot more than the cost of a DDI subscription - easily 5 times (assuming the more expensive month-by-month DDI subscription) minimum, but much more on average.

If, as some say, many 4E fans have stopped buying printed books and are instead opting to only buy DDI, that has to hurt. That's a significant revenue stream that they are cannibalizing.

Same here, with subscriptions I think I the lowest they cost is about 40 a month to as much as 80 a month when one of the hardbacks come out.(which is rare) I would say I avg like about 50 a month, with Paizo keeping the lion share of that money.

 

[Dark Mistress]

All of which is to say, even subscribers buy Paizo material from local and online retailers. If it dopes indeed become the more popular game, they would be foolish not to keep it in stock.

I personally don't, I get all my pathfinder stuff but mini's sometimes from Paizo. But none of my people in either gaming group I play in sometimes do. So when I bring a new Pathfinder book to games, that often prompts one or more of them to then go buy the books from the FLGS.

 

[Maggan]

Yes, I do. It is an idea utterly contemptuous of the core gamer and is worthy of our collective scorn and derision.

Please inform me where I can apply to be excluded from this collective of gamers who are full of scorn and derision.

Much appreciated, since I, as a player of all kinds of games with a multitude of rules and gimmicks, don't want to be associated with such a collective. And I don't really want them speaking for me.

/M

 

[Nikosandros]

So, once you use and "discard" a card, does that mean you're supposed to throw it out? You use them once in your game and throw them out? Or simply use them, and take them out of your deck?

Presumably, you take them out of your deck until you shuffle it again at the beginning of the next encounter.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I don't wish harm to WotC's overall success. They are the gateway game and acquisition arm of the hobby. If they suffer, we will all ultimately suffer throughout the hobby; manufacturer and fan alike. But do I wish pure misery and financial doom upon a product line of randomized card packs intended to be used as part of each RPG session?

Yes, I do. It is an idea utterly contemptuous of the core gamer and is worthy of our collective scorn and derision.

Why will the hobby as a whole suffer just because one company runs their rpg product line into the ground? One good thing that might come out of all this upheaval about WOTC is that gamers might come to realize that the hobby is stonger than the product produced by any company. As a group, we can game on no matter who is or isn't publishing product. That in itself is a good thing for the hobby overall. The game companies need us more than we need them. Those that understand this can make some money.

I really don't care if the cards are a huge hit or a flop personally. Scorn and derision take effort and I don't consider the cards worthy of effort on my part of any kind. Let those that like them use them and have fun doing so.