Nemesis Destiny
Adventurer
Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Playtest: Scoundrel Rogue)
Title says it all. Discuss.
Title says it all. Discuss.
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Scoundrel Rogue Playtest Up
- Thread starter Nemesis Destiny
- Start date
very little to note except blinding barrage was reduced to dex damage hit or miss, blind on hit. Odd they would take out the 2W. They don't need it, if they have combat advantage, it doesn't really tip the scales either way, i feel, so let them keep it.
Otherwise minor clarifications, nothing to note.
Otherwise minor clarifications, nothing to note.
Nemesis Destiny
Adventurer
I noticed a couple of things.
1) Shortbow was not added to the Scoundrel Rogue's weapon list. I guess that's fair, since Thieves don't get Shuriken either, but it is a change I kind of expected to see.
2) Riposte Strike was largely unchanged. I was hoping to see the secondary attack be changed to a melee basic for simplicity's sake. I realize that this would have the side effect of making this a golden choice for human Thieves to poach as their bonus At-will power. I guess that really answers why this change didn't happen. That, and they generally don't boost powers, only nerf them.
1) Shortbow was not added to the Scoundrel Rogue's weapon list. I guess that's fair, since Thieves don't get Shuriken either, but it is a change I kind of expected to see.
2) Riposte Strike was largely unchanged. I was hoping to see the secondary attack be changed to a melee basic for simplicity's sake. I realize that this would have the side effect of making this a golden choice for human Thieves to poach as their bonus At-will power. I guess that really answers why this change didn't happen. That, and they generally don't boost powers, only nerf them.
Other than upset some people, I'm not sure what exactly the blinding barrage nerf is accomplishing. If they don't want drow to deal 2d8 damage with it because they think it's too much or something, they could reduce it to 1[W]. Reducing a standard action daily attack power for a striker to deal such piddly damage seems like a rather unnecessary change.
There were more elegant solutions if they are worried about multi-target damage, like applying the 2[W] against only one target in burst you hit. But a striker daily power should do some damage. If it was an invoker or wizard power, I'd say sure, no problem, ditching the damage dice isn't as big a deal, controllers are after effects. but for the rogue, the change doesn't sit well with me.
There were more elegant solutions if they are worried about multi-target damage, like applying the 2[W] against only one target in burst you hit. But a striker daily power should do some damage. If it was an invoker or wizard power, I'd say sure, no problem, ditching the damage dice isn't as big a deal, controllers are after effects. but for the rogue, the change doesn't sit well with me.
Colmarr
First Post
Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, rogues are one of the more controllery strikers so it makes sense to retain the control aspect of this power. And that aspect of it is still impressive.
Considering that the power is called Blinding Barrage, it needed to (1) blind and (2) be a barrage, without also being overly complex or overpowered. With those design goals in mind, and I think they did a reasonable job.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
There's a few changes that are not noted in the "changes in brief" section.
Fleeting ghost explicitly states that you must satisfy all the normal conditions for a stealth check, which puts one argument about the new stealth rules to rest at last.
Chameleon only lets you remain hidden from one creature and the wording makes it very clear how the power works. Previously it was murky at best.
Fools opportunity is now a really cool power, because the target hits itself with a basic attack, instead of the previous "takes damage as though hit by it's basic attack". So now all those critters with nasty status-inflicting basic attacks that do minimal damage are good targets for the power. Still not as clear as it could be (what if the target does extra damage against foes it has combat advantage against - does it deal the extra damage? Can it grab itself? Can it mark itself?) but worth taking now. It would be nice if the weapon requirement was removed from this as it's not needed to keep damage in check, but that's just a pet peeve I have about how an unarmed rogue effectively loses his class.
Garrote grip and stab and grab now both require a light blade and a free hand, which makes no sense if one is wielding a spiked chain (for instance), and it still doesn't make sense that you have to wield a light blade at all to use garrote grip. I'd much rather it became some sort of fixed attack bonus/fixed damage power with no weapon restriction. Same pet peeve as fool's opportunity, but with the added "why am I dealing damage with my dagger when I garotte someone?"
Assassins suck at doing X, so I was hoping that someone makes rogues worse at Y? Wouldn't you rather that assassins were improved?
Fleeting ghost explicitly states that you must satisfy all the normal conditions for a stealth check, which puts one argument about the new stealth rules to rest at last.
Chameleon only lets you remain hidden from one creature and the wording makes it very clear how the power works. Previously it was murky at best.
Fools opportunity is now a really cool power, because the target hits itself with a basic attack, instead of the previous "takes damage as though hit by it's basic attack". So now all those critters with nasty status-inflicting basic attacks that do minimal damage are good targets for the power. Still not as clear as it could be (what if the target does extra damage against foes it has combat advantage against - does it deal the extra damage? Can it grab itself? Can it mark itself?) but worth taking now. It would be nice if the weapon requirement was removed from this as it's not needed to keep damage in check, but that's just a pet peeve I have about how an unarmed rogue effectively loses his class.
Garrote grip and stab and grab now both require a light blade and a free hand, which makes no sense if one is wielding a spiked chain (for instance), and it still doesn't make sense that you have to wield a light blade at all to use garrote grip. I'd much rather it became some sort of fixed attack bonus/fixed damage power with no weapon restriction. Same pet peeve as fool's opportunity, but with the added "why am I dealing damage with my dagger when I garotte someone?"
Assassins suck at doing X, so I was hoping that someone makes rogues worse at Y? Wouldn't you rather that assassins were improved?
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Of course I would, but Rogues at present have a virtual monopoly on everything assassins are supposed to do. Cunning Sneak is an extraordinarily powerful ability attached to a class that already gets a lot of extraordinarily powerful abilities.
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