Scout Skirmish ability and AoO?

[Hypersmurf]

The thing that gets me though is there is no definition for attack action. Standard action yes, but no attack action in the glossary. In the index it is listed as Action (attack) making it seem even less real. There is no attack action under action types. Under Standard actions the first sentance is "making an attack is a standard action". It then takes about melle attacks, unarmed attacks, ranged attacks etc. but there is not attack action.

Do you agree that there is such a thing as "the full attack action"? How about "the charge action"?

Saying that sentence is "the first sentence under Standard Actions" is misleading. It's the first sentence under the subheading of the first action in the Standard Actions section; that action is 'Attack'.

The action labelled 'Attack' is the Attack action. The action labelled 'Full Attack' - found in the full round actions section - is the Full Attack action. (You won't find it in the Glossary, by the way.)

-Hyp.

 

[Crothian]

Do you agree that there is such a thing as "the full attack action"? How about "the charge action"?

-Hyp.

No. One is listed under Full round action, the other (charge) is listed under special full round action. But full attack action and charge action are not specifically defined in the book as such. they, like attack, are listed as options for different actually defined actions.

 

[Crothian]

I just think the actions need to be better defined, I can se the points you are making but no way is it clear in the book.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No. One is listed under Full round action, the other (charge) is listed under special full round action. But full attack action and charge action are not specifically defined in the book as such. they, like attack, are listed as options for different actually defined actions.

Then how do you explain:

RIDE-BY ATTACK [GENERAL]
Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may...

SPIRITED CHARGE [GENERAL]
Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal...

WHIRLWIND ATTACK [GENERAL]
Benefit: When you use the full attack action, you can...

RAPID SHOT [GENERAL]
Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.

Flurry of Blows (Ex): When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.

Haste
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may...

Shall I go on?

"Full Round Action" and "Standard Action" are defined as "Action Types". "An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform."

So we have "the full attack action". Its type - full round action - tells us how long the action - full attack action - takes to perform.

The action, 'attack', has an action type of 'standard'. The attack action is a standard action.

-Hyp.

 

[Crothian]

I explain it by them either screwing yp what should and should not be called actions, or them not defining what all the actions are. It makes no sense to define some but not others.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

My goodness! As if the book isn't already generally dry. You might as well ask them to write it in machine code while you're at it so that it can run on a computer.

There are things in the books that are poorly worded or poorly defined, but actions are not one of them.

I just think the actions need to be better defined, I can se the points you are making but no way is it clear in the book.

 

[Crothian]

There are things in the books that are poorly worded or poorly defined, but actions are not one of them.

if that were true there would not be this confusion

 

[Hypersmurf]

I explain it by them either screwing yp what should and should not be called actions, or them not defining what all the actions are. It makes no sense to define some but not others.

I don't understand what you're talking about, though.

There is a table of actions listed by type. Standard Actions: ... and a list of the actions of that type. Full Round Actions: ... and a list of the actions of that type.

Then, there's a section of text, with the heading "Standard Actions", and a subheading for each of the actions that fall under that type, with their descriptions. Attack (the Attack standard action). Cast a Spell (the Cast a Spell standard action). Activate Magic Item (the Activate Magic Item standard action).

What should and should not be called actions? Anything with the action type of 'Standard Action' is an action. Anything with the action type of 'Move Action' is an action.

-Hyp.

 

[Crothian]

I'm not explaining it right. They just seem to have 4 actions types (full round, move, standard, swift) and then they go invent new ones like the attack action when all it is is s standard action used for an attack. They should keep to the four action types.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm not explaining it right. They just seem to have 4 actions types (full round, move, standard, swift) and then they go invent new ones like the attack action when all it is is s standard action used for an attack. They should keep to the four action types.

They haven't really, though. What they have done is add new *actions* which fit within the existing action types (and, by the by, added a couple new action types as well). The hierarchy looks like this:

1. Standard Action
   • Attack (melee)
   • Attack (ranged)
   • Attack (unarmed)
   • Activate a magic item other than a potion or oil
   • Aid another
   • Bull rush
   • Cast a spell (1 standard action casting time)
   • Concentrate to maintain an active spell
   • Dismiss a spell
   • Draw a hidden weapon (see Sleight of Hand skill)
   • Drink a potion or apply an oil
   • Escape a grapple
   • Feint
   • Light a torch with a tindertwig
   • Lower spell resistance
   • Make a dying friend stable (see Heal skill)
   • Overrun
   • Read a scroll
   • Ready (triggers a standard action)
   • Sunder a weapon (attack)
   • Sunder an object (attack)
   • Total defense
   • Turn or rebuke undead
   • Use extraordinary ability
   • Use skill that takes 1 action
   • Use spell-like ability
   • Use supernatural ability
   • Manyshot
2. Move Action
   • Move
   • Control a frightened mount
   • Direct or redirect an active spell
   • Draw a weapon
   • Feint with Improved Feint
   • Load a hand crossbow or light crossbow
   • Open or close a door
   • Mount a horse or dismount
   • Move a heavy object
   • Pick up an item
   • Sheathe a weapon
   • Stand up from prone
   • Ready or loose a shield4
   • Retrieve a stored item
3. Full-round Action
   • Charge
   • Deliver coup de grace
   • Escape from a net
   • Extinguish flames
   • Full attack
   • Light a torch
   • Load a heavy or repeating crossbow
   • Lock or unlock weapon in locked gauntlet
   • Prepare to throw splash weapon
   • Run
   • Use skill that takes 1 round
   • Use touch spell on up to six friends
   • Withdraw5
4. Free Action
   • Cease concentration on a spell
   • Drop an item
   • Drop to the floor
   • Prepare spell components to cast a spell6
   • Speak
   • Stand from prone with a DC 35 Tumble check
   • Reload a light crossbow with Rapid Reload
5. Swift Action
   • Cast a quickened spell
   • Cast any spell with a casting time of Swift Action
6. Immediate Action
   • Cast Featherfall
   • Cast any sp[ell with a casting time of Immediate Action

Manyshot is its own standard action. Shot on the Run works with the Attack action, which is also a standard action.