Scribe Scroll: Paper Versus Projection?

[Greenfield]

Here's my major objection, once again...

Silent Image
Illusion (Figment)
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: Visual figment that cannot extend beyond four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration: Concentration
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)
Spell Resistance: No
This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect.
Focus: A bit of fleece.

As the highlighted sections show, the spell limits the size of the figment to 4 10 foot cubes, plus one per caster level. And while the range says how far from the caster that volume can be, the figment can only move within that volume of space.

That means that your spell book can't go with you. If it ever leaves that area it vanishes.

The same applies to a scroll, book, stone plaque, bunny rabbit or pogo stick. It's stuck pretty much where the illusion was originally cast. Not movable outside that area.

And, of course, all of this ignores the general wrongness of creating an illusion of a magic item, then having that item function as if it were real.

I mean, if you can do a scroll, why not a potion? A wand? A staff? The Artifact of your choice? Why not an illusion of an Efreet, and have him grant Wishes?

Now, you can of course do any of these things, but only if you're willing to ignore the rules. And if that's the case, why are you raising rule questions about it?

Now you ask about a weapon with an Illusion on it. The effect is called Glamored, and though it normally applies to armor I suppose you could attach it to a weapon. It's a specific enchantment, with specific rules and costs. It also requires a specific feat to add, beyond just a permanent spell.

But since you can't attach a Silent Image to an object, your application doesn't work. Essentially none of the related illusion spells have that option either. They don't move just because something that was in the area moved, not when someone tries to turn a page of your illusory book, nor when someone picks up your illusion-covered sword. The finger goes through the page, and the illusion stays behind when the sword is drawn.

Your translation of the sections I highlighted was amusing, by the way. It says that the illusory object's movement is limited to "within the limits of the size of the effect", and you "translate" that to mean that you can move it outside the limits of the size of the effect. Sorry, you got that 100% backwards. It isn't nailed to a point in space, but is essentially locked into a cell. It can pace the floor, but it can't leave.

Some higher level illusion spells state explicitly that the caster can move them within the range of the spell. This isn't one of those higher level ones, and even that expanded mobility wouldn't help, since it would be anchored to within a few hundred feet of the spot it was cast from.

At least one of those says that the caster can make it react to contact, and thus not be rendered useless by contact, but again, we're talking about something that isn't Silent Image.

By the way, where did you come across the "Rod of XP"? Personal invention, or is that from an actual WOTC publication?

And the Permanent Rod of Permanency? What source?

<PS: I'm still trying to figure out how you can visualize an entire spell book, with all of the spells in there in enough detail to be readable, if you don't have all of the spells memorized at the same time? >

 

[a-d]

Permanency is irrelevant since as you said it isn't on the list. My mistake for not bothering to check.

Silent Image did look too easy, but Permanent Image will do. Especially if I research a lower level one with only the visual aspect remaining.

Permanent Image
Illusion (Figment)
Level: Brd 6, Creation 7, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, F
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: Figment that cannot extend beyond a 20-ft. cube + one 10-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration: Permanent (D)
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)
Spell Resistance: No

This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The figment includes visual, auditory, olfactory, and thermal elements, and the spell is permanent. By concentrating, you can move the image within the limits of the range, but it is static while you are not concentrating. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect.
Material Component: A bit of fleece plus powdered jade worth 100 gp.

Okay, after seeing the descriptive text here I can understand why you'd say they can't move around with you.
This is the only one that can move around in it's area of effect and while that doesn't necessarily mean it's locked onto the ground instead of the caster, every other version of this type was so such a limitation makes sense.
However, there are other illusions that walk with you. They all appear to have durations but researching a mix between Permanent Image and

Level 9
None
Level 8
None
Level 7
Invisibility, Mass
Project Image
Level 6
Mislead
Veil
Level 5
Seeming
Level 4
Invisibility, Greater
Level 3
Dispacement
Illusory Script
Invisibility Sphere
Level 2
Blur
Invisibility
Phantom Trap
Level 1
Disguise Self
Magic Aura
Level 0
None

I now understand that neither Silent Image nor any of it's more advanced versions can do the job on it's own. It does however appear to be the only Illusion spell with the ability to mimic anything, rather than just something specific like disguise and invisibility do.

 

[jefgorbach]

I agree that the spell should be usable in such a fashion, but I disagree on your pricing.
The text presented is illegible gobbledygook to everyone but the caster, so the language you speak is irrelevant.
Also, unless you're specifically tuning it to Wizards only, Bards and Sorcerers could use the book as well.

I include a 10% discount for knowing the creator's personal gobbledygook to comprehend the projected text (which perhaps should be higher to reflect its uniqueness) and a further 30% discount for limiting it strictly to wizards.
Yes, a 40% discount seems excessive but justifiable considering its still ballparking around 13,000gp whereas the equivalent blank parchment is a mere 630gp.

This device is no different than the numerous example items based upon impermanent spell durations and/or charges because RAW implies spells enchanted into objects are to be considered cast at the point when/where that object is later ACTIVATED, not when/where they were created.

For example, RAW states the grey Bag of Tricks is a cloth bag enchanted with Summon Nature's Ally II by a 3rd level caster. The user may activate it upto 10x per week by withdrawing and tossing a fuzzy ball) , summoning a random animal from a predefined list to appear within 40ft of the bag and remain for 10-minutes before vanishing. Apparently the naysayers feel such a bag cant exist because according to RAW SNA2 can only summon a single animal which would have appeared where the bag was originally created, lasting a mere 3 rounds before vanishing forevermore; rending the bag inert thereafter because the spell's duration had expired.

So while they are correct in the user would be limited to projecting the stored image somewhere within the area-of-effect centered upon a point within 520' of the item and that it would only be displayed for as long as the caster concentrated; that point-of-origin COULD be moved an unlimited distance between uses just like any other wondrous item.

Furthermore, such stored enchantments typically have all their variable traits preset at the time of enchantment. In the case of an offensive spell, its the range, duration, and amount of damage inflicted. In this case of this device, its the image stored for later recall.

[MENTION=6669384]Greenfield[/MENTION]
I questioned this too because the Scribe Scroll feat says "You can create a scroll of any spell that you KNOW" and the description for the wizard class notes "Unlike a bard or sorcerer, a wizard may KNOW any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare." In other words the user does NOT need to have the desired spells memorized, just available to him in his spellbook/scroll case.

 

[Dandu]

Short answer: No.

Long answer:

 

[Greenfield]

1st question: How do you attach an Illusion to a physical object?

2nd question: How do you "activate" a Permanent Image spell, other than by re-casting? Or a Silent Image, or a Major Image, or any of the related spells?

3rd question: If the book itself is an illusion, what/when/how/why/where does one "activate" it?

4th question: If you would allow an illusion of a Scroll to work (spell completion device), would you allow an illusion of a Wand to work? (Spell trigger device.) A Staff? If not, why not?

5th question: You cited the "know" reference from class description when it came to scribing scrolls. Did you read the rest of the section, the part that says you have to have the spell prepared, and that it gets expended when the scroll is scribed? Did you read the section on writing spells into a book?

Replacing and Copying Spellbooks
A wizard can use the procedure for learning a spell to reconstruct a lost spellbook. If she already has a particular spell prepared, she can write it directly into a new book at a cost of 100 gp per page (as noted in Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, above). The process wipes the prepared spell from her mind, just as casting it would. If she does not have the spell prepared, she can prepare it from a borrowed spellbook and then write it into a new book.
Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as replacing it, but the task is much easier. The time requirement and cost per page are halved.

There's more to this, of course, that was just the pertinent portion.

The translation is, "You need to have a spell "prepared" in order to add it to a spellbook, whether it's the first time for a new spell or you're re-creating or copying an existing spellbook."

You can read the entire section under the heading "Arcane Magical Writings".

 

[Greenfield]

...However, there are other illusions that walk with you. They all appear to have durations but researching a mix between Permanent Image and

Level 9
None
Level 8
None
Level 7
Invisibility, Mass
Project Image
Level 6
Mislead
Veil
Level 5
Seeming
Level 4
Invisibility, Greater
Level 3
Dispacement
Illusory Script
Invisibility Sphere
Level 2
Blur
Invisibility
Phantom Trap
Level 1
Disguise Self
Magic Aura
Level 0
None

I now understand that neither Silent Image nor any of it's more advanced versions can do the job on it's own. It does however appear to be the only Illusion spell with the ability to mimic anything, rather than just something specific like disguise and invisibility do.

Note the difference between spells of the Illusion school, and the "Illusion (figment)" spells we've been talking about.

None of the Image spells can attach to objects, react on their own, or move in reaction to anything except the caster's concentration. So an illusory "book" or "scroll" that you managed to put into your pack would stay right where you put it, even when the pack moved from around it.

So if your goal is a spell book that can hold more spells in a smaller space, go to the (Boccobs) Blessed Book. 1000 pages, durable, lockable, 1 lb in weight, small in size ( about the size of a DMG ), and cost 12,500 gp. Half that if you make it yourself. And copying spells into it is cheaper, 75 gp per page instead of 100.

If your goal is a spell book that you can add spells to free of charge, well, you can do that with any spell you gain from level increase. All the others cost.

And if you are looking for a way to create a magic item (scroll) without paying the cost, go find a DM who doesn't know the rules. And hope he never bothers to learn them.