Scroll Activation Issue

[Caliban]

Once you have deciphered the scroll (via a spellcraft check or a read magic spell), it takes exactly as long to activate the spell on the scroll as it would to cast it normally. (DMG, in the first paragraph of the "Activating Magic Items" section.) By default this is a standard action, because most spells are a standard action to cast, but a scroll of Identify still takes 8 hours to activate.

Here's the relevent text from the SRD:

Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, whether it’s a scroll, a wand, or a pair of boots, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

It may take you a minute per page to read it when you first decipher it, but it very obviously doesn't take that long after you have deciphered it.

Scrolls are "Spell Completion" items. You activate them by completing the spell. Most of the work has already been done, and the magic is infused in the scroll, just waiting the last few syllables to release it. That is why it make take a minute or more to decipher it, but once you have read the scroll, you just need a few moments to find the incomplete portion of the spell, and then complete it and release the spell.

Normall spellcasting is much the same, except instead of storing the nearly complete spell energy in the scroll, you store it within yourself.

 

[Number47]

Picture the scroll as being a chart and diagrams of bus routes and times. It will take you a minute to get the basic gist of it the first time you look at it. Then, when you go to use your "bus schedule", you look up only the information you need at that moment. That only takes six seconds because you have gotten the feel of the schedule already. That is what a scroll is. You only need to say three words to activate it, but which three depend on a large number of factors that you can't be sure of ahead of time. Just like a real bus schedule, it vanishes as soon as you actually use it.

 

[skymage]

IMHO the only time it would take more then 6 seconds to read a scroll is if there are more then one spell on the scroll. scrolls can have up to 6 spells meaning 6 seconds each with maybe a circumstance penalty cause there is no way to determine when a spell ends unless you already read it. in other words 6 spells is one min.

it depends on how you view scrolls. the books says easy to use and they have the same casting time as the spell so i see it as the command word and the info on "caster level" after all there has to be a way to quantify the damage, range, and how hard it is to dispeal it in ingame terms. the only thing that has to be done is finish the spell which is just like casting a spell you had prepared.

after all in real life there where some spells that took me a minute to read and understand but once i've looked it over it takes all of about six seconds to reread it and understand it. the first time i read wish it took me a while now if i have to look somthing up it takes less then a min to find the page and the section i want

in the end you have to make scrolls they way you see them or change the rules so scrolls are the way there are suposed to be but in my opinion they are fine the way they are.

 

[AuraSeer]

I think the idea of multiple spells on one scroll is a holdover from previous editions. AFAIK, a 3e scroll holds exactly one spell.

 

[kreynolds]

I think the idea of multiple spells on one scroll is a holdover from previous editions. AFAIK, a 3e scroll holds exactly one spell.

From the DMG, page 199...

A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 1/2 inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell.

That page is getting a good amount of attention today.

 

[Coredump]

Candidus, no where (that I have seen) does it say that a scroll has pages and pages of writing. You have several times brought up the length of a spell in a spellbook, but that really has no bearing. The symbols/words/pictures/etc. on a scroll actually contain magic, therefore the rules are different. A 5th level spell takes up 10 pages in a book, do you really expect it to take up 10 pages of scroll?

What is on the scroll is (apparently) some magical symbols and phrases that must be understood before it can be used. (deciphering) Once you understand it, and can 'grok' its meaning, there is little in the way of actual prose to repeat when activating it.

ie. You find a scroll, and it has some 'strange' writing on it. You sit down and take some time to try and figure it out, maybe using Read Magic...
You figure out that certain parts are symbols of power, certain parts are clues about how to read it, certain parts are glyphs holding power, and certain parts can be understood to say "5 HD fireball will come shooting out now"
Now that you 'understand' how the scroll is written, all you have to do is take it out and say "5 HD fireball will come shooting out now"

.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Candidus, no where (that I have seen) does it say that a scroll has pages and pages of writing. You have several times brought up the length of a spell in a spellbook, but that really has no bearing. The symbols/words/pictures/etc. on a scroll actually contain magic, therefore the rules are different. A 5th level spell takes up 10 pages in a book, do you really expect it to take up 10 pages of scroll?
.

I see your point, partly.

First of all, let me call your attention to the passage that kreynolds quoted from the DMG, p. 199 (in the post just above yours). It says that a scroll has an extra foot for every extra spell. So, that at least means that these scrolls are not short documents. It would take a while to read one.

But I think your main point is that you may not have to read ALL of the scroll when you activate it. I agree with that. I just think that it should have said that in the DMG, instead of just saying that you have to "read the scroll." I think everyone is agreeing that clearly, it only takes one action to activate the scroll. The question is, what is it that happens in that one action? That is where I think we just have to make something up, because the books are unclear.

As for whether scroll writing and spellbook writing have different notation systems .... that is possible. But the rules make no provision for some magical writing to be easier or quicker to read than other magical writing. It all takes one minute per page. But, I don't object to your idea, since obviously we have to come up with some way to make the otherwise unclear rules makes sense. So, your proposal that scrolls might not take as long to read is a possible solution.

 

[Dingleberry]

Picture the scroll as being a chart and diagrams of bus routes and times. It will take you a minute to get the basic gist of it the first time you look at it. Then, when you go to use your "bus schedule", you look up only the information you need at that moment. That only takes six seconds because you have gotten the feel of the schedule already. That is what a scroll is. You only need to say three words to activate it, but which three depend on a large number of factors that you can't be sure of ahead of time. Just like a real bus schedule, it vanishes as soon as you actually use it.

This is excellent.

Another option: as a lawyer, I naturally (and quite disturbingly) imagine a scroll as a fine print contract. You first need to read and understand it, which takes time (and is usually impossible without magic). Thereafter, all you need to do to give it effect is sign it where the "SIGN HERE" arrow sticky is.

I will now picture all deciphered scolls as having a "READ HERE" sticky on them.

 

[IceBear]

The whole notion that a scroll was a spell completion item pretty much told me that you don't have to read all of it once you understand what it does - you just have to finish the spell as if you had prepared it yourself. I never really got hung up on the details as it has never been a real issue.

IceBear

 

[Coredump]

C_C
yes the scroll is about a foot long, but you are assuming that it is solid writing that entire time. And that is not necessarily the case. Remember, you are imbueing that paper and ink with *magic* (cue background scary music....ooohhhh...) So who knows how big it has to be written, or if all the 'powerwords' need to be in individual glyphs and wards...or whatever.

Maybe they meant that there is such little actual writing on it, that it only takes a few seconds to read (once it is deciphered). Or maybe they meant you didn't have to read *all* of it. Or maybe it is a combination of lots of things, and they just wanted to simplify it down.

The problem you are having, is you have some assumptions, and are trying to nitpik the exact wording of the rules. And the wording has plenty of play in it.


Another way to think of it. How about the scroll is similar to a complex math equation. It takes quite awhile to decipher what it all represents, and what it does; but once you know that, it doesn't take long to just read it.

And math is a lot like magic...