Scroll of Summon and Augment Summoning feat

[Storm Raven]

The Augment Summoning feat says nothing about casting a spell. It says at any time the person with the feat 'conjures' a creature via a summon spell. A wand 'conjures' and so does a 'scroll' - it says nothing about casting. And I'd certainly argue that wand and scrolls contain spells, so the 'summon spell' part is valid as well. A scroll contains a summon spell, and is used to conjure, which it does when reading the scroll. Nowhere does it mention casting.

That's a question of interpretation. I'd say that the wielder isn't conjuring the creature, the scroll or wand is, and hence the feat would not apply. This could be open for interpretation however, and other DMs may rule otherwise.

 

[Pinotage]

That's a question of interpretation. I'd say that the wielder isn't conjuring the creature, the scroll or wand is, and hence the feat would not apply. This could be open for interpretation however, and other DMs may rule otherwise.

But the user is still activating the wand or scroll, so is still responsible for the conjuring, whatever mechanism is used. The scroll can't conjure on its own. It like a character kills an innocent and then blames his weapon did it. "the axe did it! It wasn't me! I can't cause slashing damage!" The 'you' in the text to me would certainly include anybody activating a magic item.

Pinotage

 

[Storm Raven]

But the user is still activating the wand or scroll, so is still responsible for the conjuring, whatever mechanism is used. The scroll can't conjure on its own. It like a character kills an innocent and then blames his weapon did it. "the axe did it! It wasn't me! I can't cause slashing damage!" The 'you' in the text to me would certainly include anybody activating a magic item.

One could rule that way, but I would not. The character isn't doing the actual conjuring, the magic item in question is. The character is activating the item, but the actual conjuring is done via the item's magic.

 

[Dracazar]

but don't forget that the character not only cast the spell but created the scroll!

Perhaps we can split the issue in 2 separate question

1) Scribe Scroll + Augment Summoning feat

2) Augment Summoning feat

also Augment Summoning feat is 2 feats (spell focus as requisite) so I think it should be a bit powerful.

 

[nittanytbone]

This is how I would do it:

Cleric with AS scribes scroll: The scroll doesn't summon an augmented creature because Spell Focus (Conjuration) doesn't work on scrolls and thus anything that requires Spell Focus as a prereq shouldn't work.

Cleric with AS uses a summon monster scroll: The scroll doesn't summon an augmented creature because the scroll contains the spell. Just as you couldn't spontaneusly apply a metamagic feat, spell penetration, or spell focus to a scroll, you can't apply AS.

Cleric with AS uses a staff of monster summoming: The staff DOES summon an augmented creature because the DC and other characteristics of a stave depend on the power of the wielder, not the creator.

 

[Storm Raven]

but don't forget that the character not only cast the spell but created the scroll!

Perhaps we can split the issue in 2 separate question

1) Scribe Scroll + Augment Summoning feat

That's fine. But no creature is actually conjured as part of making the scroll. And the crafter is not actually conjuring anything when the item is finally used (otherwise, magic items would use their crafter's save Dcs and caster level for level based effects). This, at least to me, seems like a dead end of an argument - the nature of the crafter has almost no bearing on the nature of the effect created by the item. A 20th level wizard with a 26 Intelligence, Spell Focus (Evocation), Greater Spell Focus (Evocation), and Craft Wand who makes a wand of fireballs still mkaes a wand that does 5d6 damage, a 600 foot range, and a Reflex save DC of 14.

2) Augment Summoning feat

I would say that the character isn't conjuring anything when he uses an item. The item is. This is more open to interpretation.

also Augment Summoning feat is 2 feats (spell focus as requisite) so I think it should be a bit powerful.

It is. It is also highly specialized.

 

[werk]

I vote yes, same as any other metamagic or spell casting feats like energy substitution, etc.

I've always understood and described it as if the creator casts the spell into the scroll which holds it for later use, so bells and whistles apply to the enscribed spell.

 

[Storm Raven]

I vote yes, same as any other metamagic or spell casting feats like energy substitution, etc.

I've always understood and described it as if the creator casts the spell into the scroll which holds it for later use, so bells and whistles apply to the enscribed spell.

Metamagic feats are a special case, because they usually change the level of the spell. They must be intentionally scribed as a metamagiced spell as well. Augment Summoming is more the Spell Focus than a metamagiced spell, and the svae DC of the scribed scroll is unaffected by any Spell Focus the crafter may have.

 

[werk]

Metamagic feats are a special case, because they usually change the level of the spell. They must be intentionally scribed as a metamagiced spell as well. Augment Summoming is more the Spell Focus than a metamagiced spell, and the svae DC of the scribed scroll is unaffected by any Spell Focus the crafter may have.

Excuse my ignorance, but where does it say that scrolls do not get spell focus modifiers?

 

[Pinotage]

Excuse my ignorance, but where does it say that scrolls do not get spell focus modifiers?

Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers

Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell.

Staffs are an exception to the rule. Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC.

Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly).

Only staffs benefit from feats and other effects that modify save DCs.

Pinotage